150hp genII Z750

Logo

150hp genII Z750

This is a discussion on 150hp genII Z750 within the Z1K/Z750 Performance Upgrades forums, part of the Kawasaki Z1000, Ninja 1000, Z800, Z750 & Z-750S category; Well,almost. Of course it's not 750cc anymore but 950cc with Z1000 decked cylinder block and pistons,Z1000 decked & ported head,ZX9 cams with double springs,ZX9 flywheel,ZX10 ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
  1. #1
    Newbie Balogiannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    19
    Thanked
    1 times

    150hp genII Z750

    Well,almost.

    Of course it's not 750cc anymore but 950cc with Z1000 decked cylinder block and pistons,Z1000 decked & ported head,ZX9 cams with double springs,ZX9 flywheel,ZX10 throttle bodies with 4 short stacks ( no air filter), ZX636 05-06 636 injectors, and Arata exhaust.
    Clutch has been modified also with Z1000 clutch basket and stiffer springs,as the stock clutch would slip around 135hp or so.Otherwise stock Z750 bottom end

    All the tuning is done through the stock ECU which is also updated with quickshift and launch control capabilites ,cylinders are tuned individually on the dyno for maximum performance and reliability,rev limiter is raised to "only" 12.500 rpms for engine longetivity as it stills pulls strong up there,maybe next time I'll rev it up to 13.000 just to see what it does...
    I'm already planning the next step which will be dual-stacks ( GSXR Yoshimura inspired but 3d printed) and probably 2 stage injection ( haven't decided yet which Kawasaki ECU to go with for this,but 99% it will be 636 05-06 ECU as it's almost identical)

    At the dynograph below I added a genII Z750 with slipons-modified airbox and tuned ECU - (blue line) and a genII Z1000 with slipons-modified airbox-tuned ECU as well ( green line) to better illustrate the gains

    As you can see these mother****ing ZX9 cams are killing the midrange despite the quite higher compression,and maybe I'll change them with something that has less duration.47681895_10216372856568307_3530540315054178304_n.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Balogiannis; 12-27-18 at 08:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Up-And Comer saganb85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Athens, Al
    Posts
    146
    Thanked
    1 times
    Never seen numbers that high with just zx9 cams. I just did the swap myself last week and I'm not extremely happy with it although I am still working on getting the tune straight. Definitely lost a little punch on the bottom but doesn't feel much faster up top. My favorite combination for street cruising is z750 throttle bodies with Z1000 cams. Makes it pull like a vtwin until 10k rpms

  3. #3
    Newbie Balogiannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    19
    Thanked
    1 times
    Hey Sagan,my shop is in Athens ( Greece) too. What's your bike exactly?


    I'm not a big fan of the ZX9 cams myself but I found them for dead cheap so I gave them a try,and then with the bike producing the hp that it does I didn't bother changing them for a long time,but probably I will soon enough.
    If you read the specs you'll see it's not "just ZX9 cams". The engine has seen some serious mods to increase the compression and also have enough PtV clearance. Cams have been degreed to different lobe centers,especially the exhaust which is to retarded if put in the stock position.

    This bike was being tuned for almost a year trying different cam # setups,different exhausts etc. Z750 throttle bodies are way to small if you are looking for horsepower on a Z

  4. Remove Advertisements
    RiderForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Up-And Comer saganb85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Athens, Al
    Posts
    146
    Thanked
    1 times
    I have an 06 z750s thinner head gasket Zx10 throttle bodies zx6 pcv with autotune and ignition module gsxr 750 fuel injectors 98 zx9 cams. 15/46 gearing Z1000 clutch basket. Probably my biggest restriction now is the factory z750 header but I'm running a straight exhaust tip so it's pretty free flowing. Also upgraded the suspension with zx6 forks and zx14 rear shock.
    With all the combinations I've tried I'd say the 750 throttle bodies would dominate any other mod in the 1/8th mile if you can keep the front down. Right now I'd say Z1000 cams with Zx10 tbs would be faster in the 1/4 mile lol but I have a bunch of dead spots in my tune and I've only been able to put about 20 miles on it since I got it back together.
    I've just never seen a dyno reading over 135hp with these mods. The only way I'd think 150 would be possible without spraying would be if someone managed to squeeze a zx9 head in there

  6. #5
    Newbie Balogiannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    19
    Thanked
    1 times
    Quote Originally Posted by saganb85 View Post
    I have an 06 z750s thinner head gasket Zx10 throttle bodies zx6 pcv with autotune and ignition module gsxr 750 fuel injectors 98 zx9 cams. 15/46 gearing Z1000 clutch basket. Probably my biggest restriction now is the factory z750 header but I'm running a straight exhaust tip so it's pretty free flowing. Also upgraded the suspension with zx6 forks and zx14 rear shock.
    With all the combinations I've tried I'd say the 750 throttle bodies would dominate any other mod in the 1/8th mile if you can keep the front down. Right now I'd say Z1000 cams with Zx10 tbs would be faster in the 1/4 mile lol but I have a bunch of dead spots in my tune and I've only been able to put about 20 miles on it since I got it back together.
    I've just never seen a dyno reading over 135hp with these mods. The only way I'd think 150 would be possible without spraying would be if someone managed to squeeze a zx9 head in there
    First of all,I don't like the fact that you don't believe me I'm reminding you that this bike is essentially a Z1000 now,not Z750. I've tuned many Z1000s with stock engine and they can easily make 135 with ZX10 throttle bodies,full exhaust and tuned ECU. This is for gen1 Z1000s. gen2 Z1000s can reach this horsepower with gen1 cams and ZX10 tb,full exhaust and tune.

    So +15 hp from an engine with 13.5+ compression,ported head and cams,no air filter at all,and cylinders tuned individually is pretty doable I'd say. And this is on pump gas. With VP MR12 it would make 155-157

  7. #6
    Up-And Comer saganb85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Athens, Al
    Posts
    146
    Thanked
    1 times
    Not that I don't believe you your dyno might read close to 150hp I'd bet other dynos would put you close to 135. I don't see how you're getting 20hp out of a mod that everyone else gets 5-8hp depending on if they degree the 9 cams or not. The zx9 never got close to 150hp even with the down draft heads and that's the only way I'd see a Z1000 engine getting there. But the frame won't allow it and motor mounts are way different. From what I've read we're basically running the same mods except I'm around 12-1cr and running pod filters. I'm definitely not pushing 140hp tho

  8. #7
    Rising Star PerryG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    184
    Thanked
    14 times
    saganb85: are you reading what he wrote in the above posts, he has a lot more head work than you're thinking <-- porting, 13.5/1 compression 150 should be reasonable with that, I'd expect 130 to 135ish with a full exhaust and proper tune, a 12/1 compression boost a couple more bhps, and 13.5 plus porting should be at least 140+ properly done I can see 150. And a year of dyno tuning sounds like he did it properly
    2007 Z750s, 10 zx6 rear shock/linkage, 10 zx6 forks/brakes, HEL front/rear brake lines, Pazzo shorty levers, Dynojet pcv 17-050, 06 Z1000 clutch with Barnett carbon fibre friction discs, steels and springs, and 08 cover, Parts Unlimited 16 tooth front, Supersprox stealth 46 tooth rear sprockets with 114 link RK chain, heated grips (unsure of the manufacturer), bar risers from twisted throttle, 11 ninja 1000 mirrors, MRA touring windscreen, Corbin gunfighter seat.

  9. #8
    Rising Star PerryG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    184
    Thanked
    14 times
    Perhaps you've heard of the z750/z1k's almost cult like following in parts of Europe saganb85, people like Balogiannis are why <--- (the gen2 is what makes me think Europe, we didn't get a gen2 750 over here), some of the bikes those guys have built are fantastic we probably don't come close to the time and money they've put into their bikes. It's how you make all the bits and pieces work with your platform that will make it all come together, His Arata headers (4>1 known for high rpm power) zx9 cams were meant to run at high rpm those engines turned faster expecting more bottom end with those cams all by themselves is iffy there is so much other stuff going on, intake air volume/velocity changes and the zx9 cams aren't all the same from year to year, throw in bigger throttle bodies. I wouldn't want to get into optimizing it all myself, just saying he's got a great platform to start with when you think compression and porting, a years worth of dyno tuning, with his mods I think it's reasonable although probably not necessary to turn 13 grand I'd actually be curious to see that pull just to see if there's any more in it. I'd think that's pretty much it, bhp line seems pretty level after 12,000 but who knows.
    2007 Z750s, 10 zx6 rear shock/linkage, 10 zx6 forks/brakes, HEL front/rear brake lines, Pazzo shorty levers, Dynojet pcv 17-050, 06 Z1000 clutch with Barnett carbon fibre friction discs, steels and springs, and 08 cover, Parts Unlimited 16 tooth front, Supersprox stealth 46 tooth rear sprockets with 114 link RK chain, heated grips (unsure of the manufacturer), bar risers from twisted throttle, 11 ninja 1000 mirrors, MRA touring windscreen, Corbin gunfighter seat.

  10. #9
    Up-And Comer saganb85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Athens, Al
    Posts
    146
    Thanked
    1 times
    Just don't see it breaking 140. Would have to see it on multiple dyno brands to believe it. There's a posting on here somewhere of people giving dyno numbers think everything from 115-150hp was posted with the majority running the same mods making 135 haven't seen a 13.5cr dynoed but that's not going to give 15 hp maybe 3 realisticly and I don't think there's 5-10hp in these heads that porting can gain I'm still stuck at the 140 mark especially when someone can just spray it run lower octane put down more power and probably end up with a more reliable engine with the uncut pistons.

  11. #10
    Up-And Comer saganb85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Athens, Al
    Posts
    146
    Thanked
    1 times
    I do have a question what afr are you running is it just 13.0 across the whole map? I'm getting a lot of hesitation around 3500-4000 and stumbling off the line. With the weather I'm having only getting to log a couple miles at a time between rain storms and freezing weather

  12. #11
    Newbie Balogiannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    19
    Thanked
    1 times
    Sagan,an increase in compression by 1 unit theoretically gives around 2-3% alone,so an increase in compression by 2 units is worth 5-6 hp easily. You said in a post above you are still using the 750 header,I was using an 750 Akrapovic header before the Arata and indeed I was stuck close to 135hp. Arata headers compared to 750 are like 30% bigger.

    You also miss the part that this bike has Individual cylinder tuning, if you try that you will see the benefits of a trully "tuned" engine ( given that you change the headers which is your bottleneck right now). Everybody else hasn't invested the time,money and effort that has been put into this bike.

    The dyno I'm using is a dynojet 250i, and I also posted a stock Z1000 and a Z750 for refference. You seem to stick with the ZX9 cams and ignore everything else,there are many things you can tune on this bike. Get full control of your ECU and start tweaking the ignition curves and the bike will transform

  13. #12
    Up-And Comer saganb85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Athens, Al
    Posts
    146
    Thanked
    1 times
    I have a pcv with an ignition module so individual cylinder control and ignition is possible but spending hours on a dyno to get the last 1-2 hp hour of it seems like a waste of time. I'm running +6 advance until 8k then pulled back to +2 above that. My afr is a progressive 13.8 down low up to 13 up high. It seemed to like running leaner on the bottom with the old cams just curious if the 9 is the same. I definitely like how much smoother the zx9 cam is over the 1000 and the last trip I logged on it seemed to pull pretty good except for the dead spot between 3-4k. Still haven't looked at the autotune trims since it's rained for 3 days straight here but I've considered opting to a zx9 header I've read they performed better than any of the aftermarkets produced at the time just don't know if it would be worth the hassle. A 30% increase would be nice when I decide to throw my m45 on though

  14. #13
    Newbie Balogiannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    19
    Thanked
    1 times
    Quote Originally Posted by saganb85 View Post
    I have a pcv with an ignition module so individual cylinder control and ignition is possible but spending hours on a dyno to get the last 1-2 hp hour of it seems like a waste of time. I'm running +6 advance until 8k then pulled back to +2 above that. My afr is a progressive 13.8 down low up to 13 up high. It seemed to like running leaner on the bottom with the old cams just curious if the 9 is the same. I definitely like how much smoother the zx9 cam is over the 1000 and the last trip I logged on it seemed to pull pretty good except for the dead spot between 3-4k. Still haven't looked at the autotune trims since it's rained for 3 days straight here but I've considered opting to a zx9 header I've read they performed better than any of the aftermarkets produced at the time just don't know if it would be worth the hassle. A 30% increase would be nice when I decide to throw my m45 on though


    From my experience with this bike,the 750 header is so restrictive at high rpm that the bike doesn't respond to tuning. It simply can't get the exhaust gasses out,so it doesn't care if you are tuning it at 13 AFR or 12.5 or 13.5, or if you advance the ignition 1-2-3-4-5 degrees.

    Get a good header and then you can take advantage of the other mods you have done,otherwise you'll be stuck at ~135 no matter what you do.

  15. #14
    Supreme Being rcannon409's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    8,689
    Thanked
    1568 times
    Do you have a picture of this bike, Balogiannis? It sounds pretty incredible. Ill bet you did more than engine work?
    2012 Ninja 1000 all green - Brembo 330mm rotors - AK20 fork cartridges -Penske shock-slipper -Ivans reflash...Leo Vince slip on and Arrow header

  16. #15
    Up-And Comer saganb85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Athens, Al
    Posts
    146
    Thanked
    1 times
    Decided to richen it up a little on the bottom end and it seems to really like it. Little hesitation on start but above 2500 rpm it starts really pulling. Only getting to tune 4 miles at a time riding back and forth to work but it's getting better. The power is so much smoother than the Z cams I think it's actually a little more fun around town floating the front wheel instead of jerking straight up. Basically impossible to launch it with either cam but slide the clutch at 3500 and it stands straight up. Would probably get outrun by a 250 from street light to street light lol but might have a better chance with these cams. Really don't see the point of tuning for the top end on these bikes anything above 120mph for more than a short burst here and there isn't much fun. Maybe I'll dyno it one day but don't have any close to me. And like I said I've just never seen more than 135 out of a 1000 with tune exhaust cams tbs and thinner gaskets. To me 145-150 would only be possible with the 9 downdraft heads and 12:1 cr because that's what they put down with the big bore same mods just no fi. Believe I saw 160 somewhere from someone running the 998 kit. I'm not knocking your tuning skills maybe it is possible I'm just skeptical since these bikes have been out over 15 years and I've never seen those numbers. At this point I think I'd recommend the 9 cams to anyone purely on how much smoother they run. There is no sudden surge of power like before maybe it's the gearing I'm running but it really doesn't feel like it lost much of anything. 1st gear stands up at any rpm 2nd anything above 6k and carrys it out so much easier.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •