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Took my 02 out for a night ride. Rode around city streets for about an hour. Decided to get coffee had to sit in drive thru line for at least half an hour. It was only high 80s that night so left it idle. Bike got real hot and seen a tiny puff of smoke near my engine block. Oil pressure light came on then bike shutdown. It was almost impossible to get it to turn over again. This bike has 20k miles. Rebuilt the carbs a month ago with all balls kit. Only had the bike a few months. I live in Phoenix and maybe it being air cooled is problematic. However I do ride it daily in 110 plus heat never had a problem before. 20 years late on this bike but please someone help.
 

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Do you still have oil in the sump?
My guess would be the oil pump has given up the ghost & the motor over heated which is why it wouldn't turn over
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Do you still have oil in the sump?
My guess would be the oil pump has given up the ghost & the motor over heated which is why it wouldn't turn over
Yeah it was real low in the sump. I was kinda leaning in that direction with the oil pump. Guess I'm getting my hands dirty again. Any ideas if the oil cooler goes bad or gets gummed up. Thank you for your reply.
 

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Yeah it was real low in the sump. I was kinda leaning in that direction with the oil pump. Guess I'm getting my hands dirty again. Any ideas if the oil cooler goes bad or gets gummed up. Thank you for your reply.
Whoa that is spendy for an oil pump, over $150.
 

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A bad oil pump would not cause the sump go low, it simply wouldn't raise enough oil pressure. Because the media they pump, oil pumps rarely go bad. Did it have enough oil in the first place????? Do you have a leak??? The oil system does not gum up, and the pump has an fine oil screen at the suction to prevent this. When opening the valve cover something, like a piece of rag, could fall in the camchain valley and cover the pump screen, but still the sump would have oil.

Air cooling is not the problem, it is the most reliable cooling there is, because there is nothing to break. It's got limitation on performance, and does not make for very clean combustion, but it won't fail, unless one does something very, very silly. The air cooled VW beatle saw combat as the Kubelwagen in WWII from the Russians Steppes to the Desert in North Africa, and not one german soldier ever complained about inadequate cooling?......by the way, motorcycle magazine have conducted tests leaving air cooled engines idling for hours monitoring temperature. They achieve balance with atmospheric temperature and would stay there all day long, at a fixed temperature.
 

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You didn't say if you got it running to drive home, or it was just hard to turn over. I'm hoping you didn't get it running and ride it home and had it towed instead.

I'll start by saying this doesn't sound optimistic if it hasn't been able to run since... low oil to the point the bike stops and won't turn over is hopefully is repairable, but it might be indicative of severe damage. I really didn't like how you said it made a puff of smoke.

I'd say this wasn't an issue with it being too hot or sitting if the oil level had been where it was supposed to be. It's more likely related to the oil being low.

There's a section in the service manual about how to check the oil pressure with a special tool. If it's low it could the pump, relief valve or crankshaft bearing insert. This won't tell you what's wrong, just if the pressure is too low or high. (High indicates a blocked passage.) It only involves removing a plug and screwing in the pressure tool, but you'd need to buy / borrow / rent / make the tool.

Likely not an issue with the just the oil pressure switch as you've said the oil level was indeed low.

Start by draining the oil and filter and checking for metal bits. No bits? The progress onward.

Decide if you just want to refill with oil and see if everything is working now knowing you may have to drain it to tear into things if it isn't....

For the digging deeper option -

There's 2 routes to go next. Inspect the pistons and valves or just tear into the oil pump.

For the top end if you do this -

Pull the plugs. Look down inside the pistons (if you have an inspection camera that would be ideal)
You're looking for signs of scoring, holes etc. Pull the exhaust headers and look at the exhaust valves and the same for the carbs and the intake valves. If you see metal bits on the exhaust side or bent damaged valves the damage is unfortunately more severe...

For the bottom end -

To inspect the pump you'll have to drain the remaining oil, remove the exhaust, the oil cooler feed / return pipes and remove the oil pan.

While the pan is off, inspect the relief valve in it. If you do take it out it needs some non permanent locking agent applied to it as per the service manual. It can be cleaned and tested but not taken apart. If it doesn't move smoothly it should be replaced.

Inspect the screen on the pump to see if anything is stuck to it plugging it up. Clean if required.

To remove the pump you also need to remove the clutch (yes this is getting more involved) You then remove the mounting bolt and 2 screws to remove the pump.

I'm not aware if the pump can be rebuilt of it's just a replacement option. I think it's replacement.

It's then put it all back together again and see if it runs.

I've got my fingers crossed that fresh oil and a filter will have to fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You didn't say if you got it running to drive home, or it was just hard to turn over. I'm hoping you didn't get it running and ride it home and had it towed instead.

I'll start by saying this doesn't sound optimistic if it hasn't been able to run since... low oil to the point the bike stops and won't turn over is hopefully is repairable, but it might be indicative of severe damage. I really didn't like how you said it made a puff of smoke.

I'd say this wasn't an issue with it being too hot or sitting if the oil level had been where it was supposed to be. It's more likely related to the oil being low.

There's a section in the service manual about how to check the oil pressure with a special tool. If it's low it could the pump, relief valve or crankshaft bearing insert. This won't tell you what's wrong, just if the pressure is too low or high. (High indicates a blocked passage.) It only involves removing a plug and screwing in the pressure tool, but you'd need to buy / borrow / rent / make the tool.

Likely not an issue with the just the oil pressure switch as you've said the oil level was indeed low.

Start by draining the oil and filter and checking for metal bits. No bits? The progress onward.

Decide if you just want to refill with oil and see if everything is working now knowing you may have to drain it to tear into things if it isn't....

For the digging deeper option -

There's 2 routes to go next. Inspect the pistons and valves or just tear into the oil pump.

For the top end if you do this -

Pull the plugs. Look down inside the pistons (if you have an inspection camera that would be ideal)
You're looking for signs of scoring, holes etc. Pull the exhaust headers and look at the exhaust valves and the same for the carbs and the intake valves. If you see metal bits on the exhaust side or bent damaged valves the damage is unfortunately more severe...

For the bottom end -

To inspect the pump you'll have to drain the remaining oil, remove the exhaust, the oil cooler feed / return pipes and remove the oil pan.

While the pan is off, inspect the relief valve in it. If you do take it out it needs some non permanent locking agent applied to it as per the service manual. It can be cleaned and tested but not taken apart. If it doesn't move smoothly it should be replaced.

Inspect the screen on the pump to see if anything is stuck to it plugging it up. Clean if required.

To remove the pump you also need to remove the clutch (yes this is getting more involved) You then remove the mounting bolt and 2 screws to remove the pump.

I'm not aware if the pump can be rebuilt of it's just a replacement option. I think it's replacement.

It's then put it all back together again and see if it runs.

I've got my fingers crossed that fresh oil and a filter will have to fixed.
Yes I did fire again. But same situation. Ran for a bit then lost power and stopped running. No oil pressure light on the second go around. Before I rode that night I did have full oil in the glass. I'll pull the plugs and inspect bike as soon as I can.
I do not have to crack the case to get pump out but I have to remove clutch?
I may just get a visual on engine damage if I see nothing then off to the shop. If it appears catastrophic then its a parts bike i guess. Thanks for the reply.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Just strange I started the bike sounds just fine now. While running pulled the plugs one by one and did have a power drop on each pull. Cylinder 1 got so hot that some of the ceramic came off the spark plug and these are relatively new. Heck I'm only 1000 mi into my oil change. Bike is getting hot quick. Shut her back down. Have to work today. After I get off I will inspect cylinders for damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
just got off work and started to finally inspect bike. That's my sight glass folks. Before it was good clean synthetic oil up to the h mark. After incident now full and black. Did I eat a o ring?
 

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if you didn't have synthetic in it and you put it in now, it will go black for sure as the synthetic cleans up the mess the old oil left.
 

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I do not have to crack the case to get pump out but I have to remove clutch?
Never had my pump out but the manual says you do.
122625
 

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You can find a copy of the service manual online if you google it. Always a good thing to have. I also have a copy of the pdf on my iphone for those times you may need it.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
What's it smell/ feel like?
Only was for the level to go & not down is fuel in the sump
Yes sir fuel is in the sump. What does that mean. I can do brakes, axles, and other minor pm's. I am no mechanic that's for sure. So what does fuel in the sump get me. Probably not a cruise to the Bahamas.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes sir fuel is in the sump. What does that mean. I can do brakes, axles, and other minor pm's. I am no mechanic that's for sure. So what does fuel in the sump get me. Probably not a cruise to the Bahamas.
Wow reading up on this now and there is a whole cornucopia of reasons why fuel in the sump. From driving habits to engine and or carb problems.
 

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Usually fuel in the sump (I'm talking if it's full to the top of the oil filler cap and not just fuel smelling) is caused by the petcock being left on prime, and there being an issue with a carb float in the bowl sticking open, thus the fuel runs thru the carbs and fills the crank case. Happens to many members here.

The petcock works on a vacuum system for main and reserve, and a bypass on prime. Now it's possible for the petcock to fail in main or reserve and combined with a bad float fill the crankcase with fuel, but having both issues would be very uncommon.

I know you said you had rebuilt the carbs not long ago, so the puzzle deepens....

This crankcase full of fuel in the oil doesn't explain the original condition of overheating, low oil and the puff of smoke.

Let's play "what if". What if the oil was too low, and that caused the original warning light and shut down.
And what if, that low oil caused some engine damage, and thus the puff of smoke.
You'd still have to have a bunch of issues to get that much fuel from the tank, thru the carb and into the engine from something that was damaged (would have to be piston / ring / valve )

The easiest way to check for damage to the head gasket, valves, rings etc is to do a compression test.
Remove all 4 plugs, screw a tester into one cylinder at a time and record the results. Compare the results with the "normals" and see hat you get. If you find something with no compression at all, well there may be your unpleasant answer that only money will fix.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Usually fuel in the sump (I'm talking if it's full to the top of the oil filler cap and not just fuel smelling) is caused by the petcock being left on prime, and there being an issue with a carb float in the bowl sticking open, thus the fuel runs thru the carbs and fills the crank case. Happens to many members here.

The petcock works on a vacuum system for main and reserve, and a bypass on prime. Now it's possible for the petcock to fail in main or reserve and combined with a bad float fill the crankcase with fuel, but having both issues would be very uncommon.

I know you said you had rebuilt the carbs not long ago, so the puzzle deepens....

This crankcase full of fuel in the oil doesn't explain the original condition of overheating, low oil and the puff of smoke.

Let's play "what if". What if the oil was too low, and that caused the original warning light and shut down.
And what if, that low oil caused some engine damage, and thus the puff of smoke.
You'd still have to have a bunch of issues to get that much fuel from the tank, thru the carb and into the engine from something that was damaged (would have to be piston / ring / valve )

The easiest way to check for damage to the head gasket, valves, rings etc is to do a compression test.
Remove all 4 plugs, screw a tester into one cylinder at a time and record the results. Compare the results with the "normals" and see hat you get. If you find something with no compression at all, well there may be your unpleasant answer that only money will fix.
I guess then its time to do a compression test next. Thanks for the reply on this thread. I'll will try to post findings as soon as I can. Covid 19 has me super busy at work or on my days off home schooling for the kids.
 

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I guess then its time to do a compression test next. Thanks for the reply on this thread. I'll will try to post findings as soon as I can. Covid 19 has me super busy at work or on my days off home schooling for the kids.
I had a similar situation several years ago but thankfully noticed in the garage just after I started the bike. My crankcase was full of fuel and it caused the bike to smoke. The solution was replacing the gaskets/seals in the petcck as they had gotten to the point where the auto-shutoff was no longer stopping fuel flow. These bikes shut off the fuel when the engine isn't running. There only way fuel flows is if the petcock is in prime or if there petcock is getting a vacuum pulse from the engine.

The danger here (outside of explosion hazard from fuel fumes in the crank case, if they were to get excessive) is that an overly full crankcase, in addition to oil that has been thinned via fuel, can froth from the crank and become more of a foam than liquid. This would starve the engine from oil which could be the cause of your lost oil pressure.

The hope would be that some fresh oil would take care of the problem, and of course repair of the petcock or making sure it is not left on prime. We would also hope that the engine bearing/rings are in good shape still and that there was no damage there from oil starvation.

Hope this has a good ending, but I'd start with the petcock and an oil change....

Also for what it is worth, air cooled is reliable of course but idling for extended periods in the heat after the engine is warm or up to temp I would recommend against. The only air flow is from travel, I even put a large fan in front of mine if I need to run it stationary for an extended time for items such as carb adjustment. Something to consider anyway, though it sounds like this particular issue wasn't specifically the idling.
 
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