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Discussion Starter #1
hi all, A bit of a ramble i know but if i don't put all the details i could miss out on some help, and i really need some.

first of all a bit of background as it may have a bearing on the current problem.

I've had my 03 Z1000 for nearly 2 years now, only mods are a K&N and aftermarket slip ons (with a power commander planned). So I was massively disappointed last Christmas when it gave up completely. Fired it up one day then 2 days later lost all compression and wouldn't start. After dropping $1000, or £600 in real money on it, it turns out that, and i know how stupid this is gonna sound but i saw it, all the valves were unseated with carbon deposits.
The only thing that makes any sort of sense is the engine was freezing cold, sudden heat and the carbon in the top end cracked, as i only fired it up quickly and then turned off as the engine cooled the carbon came away leaving lumps in the bore. When i next tried to start it the bits got jammed in the valves before it started and could be fired out. Sounds raving mad i know but it's the only explanation that makes any sense. I sat there turning it over and there sounded like there was no compression. When the mechanic stripped off the top end he filled the head with petrol and it drained away in all 4 cylinders, the centre 2 particularly quickly. So an new set of rings and all the valves reseating and she was good to go.

I recently had it Dyno'd and peak power was 120hp at about 10500rpm but it was a alittle rich below 6500rpm and above 8500rpm

All had been good then suddenly one Monday morning it wouldn't start on the button, a bump start later and it fired straight up no problem. I thought this was odd but rode it to work any way. In the afternoon it started up fine on the button so all was forgiven. by the end of the week however every morning non starting on the button, but in the afternoon it was fine. Went to my mechanic but he doesn't have computer software to plug in and diagnose so that was a dead end. Filled it up with petrol on the Monday morning and for the rest of the week it started fine on the button. At this point i thought i had just had a dodgy batch of petrol but the following week it started again.

The only thing that had changed was the weather, when the bike is cold in the morning or afternoon, no way it's gonna start on the button but jump starts really easily. If it has been in the sun all day and relatively warm out it will start on the button but may need full choke and a bit of throttle to get it to fire

Has any one got any clues as to the problem? Is there a temperature probe on it somewhere? has the curse of the Kawasaki struck me again? (this will be the third time and maybe time to give up on Kwaks all together)

Cheers all

Smiffy
 

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i say start with your battery, when its cold the batteries chemical reaction is slow, when you bump start it/jump starts it (you listed both ways but diff execution of starting) you are bypassing the battery and using the "generator" on the bike to supply your voltage

Which also eliminates me thinking its a regulator prob for supply voltage, still may have a charging problem but i would start with the batt as the culprit.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
nice thought but it turns over no problem at all, nice and fast just no hint of a start. It does seem to change note slightly if i give it throttle though, as if it is turnig over faster with throttle open.

If it was low it would turn over slow or not at all surely.

The FI comes on if hold the starter button on for too long and once on stays on until the ignition is turned off. i've never tried to bump it after it is on though, i always turn off and back on.

I did think if it was running a bit rich it could be the plugs but i don't see why it should start fine with a bump if that was the case. Plus it has only done about 2000 miles since full service and head rebuild was done.

Cheers

Smiffy
 

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You didn't mention it but I'm assuming you have played with the choke and that doesn't help? How many miles does the engine have on it total? Have the injectors been checked?
 

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As stated by Grapeapeguy, I'd change out the battery before you start digging too deep. Mine refused to start when it seemed that the battery was fine. Also, don't be afraid to lay on the start button for 15 seconds or so. Lastly, when she does start, back off the choke right away. Best of Luck! ,BK
 

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Discussion Starter #6
yep tried choke, rarely makes a difference. There have been a few occasions when i have had the choke full on and gave it a handful of throttle that it has fired but again it only seemed to be any joy if it was warm.

Looks like i'm gonna have to bite the bullet and get it in for a once over. Wanted a clue as to what it might be as they want £55 an hour to look at it.

My gut says it's the injectors but i freely admit i know less than bugger all to be honest and my pocket hopes it really isn't the injectors or i'll be bump starting it until it dies completely as i can't afford injectors for it, not with what it's worth now, false economy and all that.

Going back to the battery, i have already admitted to not knowing a lot, but a small change in temp surely shouldn't affect the output of the battery to the extent of starting if its warm to if its cold, the bike that is.

I did wonder if it was slowly flooding while sat so i bumped it so it started then killed it after a couple of throttle twists. The thinking being id it was flooded then starting would burn off excess fuel and it would then start on the button. No joy though.
Once it is going though it seems to run absolutely fine.

Smiffy
 

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Smiffy: I neglected to note that I've twice had my Z seem to spin freely and actually need another battery. I wonder (and other feel free to chime in) if the injectors need a certain voltage to fire versus maybe a lower threshold to spin the starter. Just Guessing................ ,BK
 

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Discussion Starter #8
ordered a can of BG44K to see if it'll clear my problem. Worth a try, maybe a little kill or cure to it too. :)
 

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Smiffy: I neglected to note that I've twice had my Z seem to spin freely and actually need another battery. I wonder (and other feel free to chime in) if the injectors need a certain voltage to fire versus maybe a lower threshold to spin the starter. Just Guessing................ ,BK
I don't know about the injectors needing a certain amount of energy to fire but your CDI type ignition DOES REQUIRE a certain amount of energy to work.

MDKsmiffy- Your bike may be using all the energy to spin over the motor, instead of firing the plugs. Thats why if the bike was ridden recently it would start on the button, b/c the charging system would have left just enough power in there to start it. Batteries constantly discharge, and if the bike has sat for a day, and the oil is cold, and thicker... It would require more cranking energy, thus robbing energy from your ignition....just my 2 cents
 

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i agree with the replacing the battery...worse case scenario you take the battery back after replacing it. This to me seems to be the cheapest option you have :smokin:
 

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I have a Zephyr 550 that when I first got it, she started twice and then wouldn't start no more. Replaced the battery and I haven't had a problem since...
except when it would just cut off (since I had the kickstand down :squid) or until I killed it! :AR15firin
In other words... battery replacement time :cool:.
 

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If you want to check the battery, put a volt meter across it and try starting. If it is bad it will drop well below 12v.
Keep in mind that the choke is not a choke. It just changes the location of the throttle stop. It does nothing more than if you cracked the throttle a little by hand. It is there to warm the bike up quicker, but I use it for a cruise control.
 

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If you want to check the battery, put a volt meter across it and try starting. If it is bad it will drop well below 12v.
Keep in mind that the choke is not a choke. It just changes the location of the throttle stop. It does nothing more than if you cracked the throttle a little by hand. It is there to warm the bike up quicker, but I use it for a cruise control.
amongs my friends we call it cruise-ca-choke
 

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Discussion Starter #14
sorry not been back to post more to this.

Did I find a decent solution, no, do i have still have the problem, no, the bike was nicked from my garage. All i can hope is the scrote that nicked it falls off and breaks his back.

Cheers all.

Smiffy
 

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My vote.... FWIW....

The "Z"s are KNOWN to have issues starting with a low battery, even though it seems to be cranking fast enough, etc... Also, as to the earlier post, about no compression, SAME thing... known issues... check old posts... you will see.... just a "quirk" of this model.... anyway, battery isnt expensive, and, cant possibly hurt to have a new one... especially if its over 2 years old.... just sayin...... good luck, and to all.... RIDE SAFE! Wanna meet all of you somewhere sometime, and share a brewski or 2....:alcy: also, didnt see post about it being stolen... sorry...know what thats about...mine was also... got it back,all f'd up, in pieces, 2 years later.... :(
 
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