[fencingdude101]

Hello all!

After seeing djrussell and kojiiro's successful fork swaps on their 650's and their testimonies to how amazing it feels, I have decided to switch from the Gold Valve Emulators to the swap myself. I'm not sure how long this will take, as there is so much information out there. At first, I was planning on just PMing the people who completed the project with any questions I have (As there will be many), but I think a thread that I continuously build that includes resources, questions and answers, tips, etc would be more useful to me with more people seeing it, and more useful for others interested in the swap.

Listed below are the different sections, and these will be added to and updated as much as I can with my own research and with the help of you wonderful people.

If you have any suggestions for what to add or change, feel free to let me know! If anyone wants to take an active part in this, do some searching of your own and send any information you have to me with its source.

Hopefully this thread turns out useful to both me and any others. Please, post every question you have- the more the better.

Introduction:
Why do a fork swap? First: Suspension. The 650's suspension is mediocre at best, with the rear shock being cheap and the front forks being horribly oversprung and based off old technology. While improving the rear suspension is as easy as buying a rear shock that's valved and sprung for your weight and riding style, the front is not as easily overcome due to the nature of forks (Can't just buy some random Ohlin's forks and expect them to work at all). The easiest improvement to the front end is correctly sprung springs- as easy as taking the forks apart a bit and sticking new springs in.

Past springs, what's the problem? The forks are based off of old damper rod technology, in which damping(Resistance to movement) is influenced by how fast fork oil can flow through holes on a rod within the fork. That's it. As fork travel velocity increases (Harder bump), the more damping is provided, due to the fact only a limited amount of the fork oil can travel through the holes at one time. Not only is this damping not adjustable, but as the velocity doubles, the damping effect quadruples- this basically means the forks must be designed with a compromise in mind, where low-speed damping is way too soft and high-speed damping is way too harsh.

How to we solve this? In this case, we swap out the forks with another type that is much more effective: cartridge forks! These forks rely on valving to provide damping. Holes in cartridges within the fork provide low-speed damping, but as velocity increases, shims on the cartridges start to bend and allow more oil to flow through, allowing for much more tunability and the ability to create great damping for both high and low-speed fork movements. On top of this, the amount of oil flowing through the small holes and to the metal shims is adjustable, allowing a large range of adjustment. Basically, this translates into the possibility of a fork that is perfectly tuned for your needs. Sound great, right!

How do we do the swap? Good question! Basically, we take forks off of other, higher end bikes (Namely older generation 636/ZX6Rs or ZX10Rs) and put them on ours. Sadly, it is a bit more complicated: new triple trees, brakes, possible wheels and handlebars and master cylinders are needed, along with a few other things. Don't worry though, everything is explaining below, and if you're up for it, you can get an amazing new front suspension setup by doing this.

Do I get anything else? Beside cool, anodized inverted forks, you have the opportunity to get vastly improved brakes. Think your 650 brakes are good enough? Trust me, you won't once you try some sexy Nissins off a ZX14R!

Are there any other options? Sure! If you don't want to partake in this fun, you can buy these nifty things called "Gold Valve Emulators" or "Intimidators". Look them up, they basically provide cartridge-like qualities for your fork, albeit at the expense of some performance (Compared to true cartridge-based forks) and adjustability. You could also buy cartridge internals that basically convert your forks into adjustable cartridge forks, which is much easier than a swap, however those are very expensive ($1000-$1500). Either that, or just buying a bike with some good forks already installed is an option.

After all this, are you still interested? If so, continue on...

Options/Parts:
This is where any parts needed for the swap will be listed. On top of this, average prices, locations to buy along with different options (Such as different triples to use) will be listed

Triple Clamps:
These are the things that connect the fork/wheel assembly to the rest of the bike through the frame. There is an upper triple clamp that you connect your handlebars/clip-ons to, along with a lower triple clamp that has a rod attached to it that fits in the frame- both of these have bearings installed that allow them to be rotated for steering. Because the forks you will be using will be a different size/type of fork, new triples must be used to accommodate the different sized tubes.

All combinations of the triples listed should work together in terms of fork offset/location

Upper Triples
Z1000
Average Price: $100
Usable Years: All
Upper Clamp Diameter: 50mm
Handlebars: Allows stock use for 12-15 650s
Recommended Fork: 636 or ZX10R
Difficulty to Find: Medium-High
-Small cutting required for 12-15 650s to allow full rotation between steering stops(Refer to Kojiiro's build guide, post 3)

Versys 650
Average Price: $100
Usable Years: All
Upper Clamp Diameter: 50mm
Handlebars: Must use clip-ons (12-15 650s: Must use clip-on risers)
Recommended Fork: 636 or ZX10R
Difficulty to Find: High

636
Average Price: $75
Usable Years: 03-08
Upper Clamp Diameter: 50mm
Handlebars: Must use clip-ons (12-15 650s: Must use clip-on risers)
Recommended Fork: 636 or ZX10R
Difficulty to Find: Low

ZX10R
Average Price: $75
Usable Years: 04-10
Upper Clamp Diameter: 50mm
Handlebars: Must use clip-ons (12-15 650s: Must use clip-on risers)
Recommended Fork: 636 or ZX10R
Difficulty to Find: Medium-Low


Lower Triples
Z1000
Average Price: $200
Usable Years: 03-06 (Other years possible, but not confirmed)
Lower Clamp Diameter: 52mm
Steering Stops: Match stock, no welding required
Recommended Fork: 636
Difficulty to Find: Medium-High

Versys 650
Average Price: $100
Usable Years: All
Lower Clamp Diameter: 52mm
Steering Stops: Match stock, no welding required
Recommended Fork: 636 or ZX10R
Difficulty to Find: High
-Can be milled out to 54mm (2mm larger) clamp diameter to be used with ZX10R forks

636
Average Price: $50
Usable Years: 03-04
Lower Clamp Diameter: 52mm
Steering Stops: Does not match stock, welding required if wanted
Recommended Fork: 636
Difficulty to Find: Low
-Cannot use 05+ as the steering stem is .5" too short (7" vs. the 7.5" required)

ZX10R
Average Price: $40
Usable Years: 04-10
Lower Clamp Diameter: 54mm
Steering Stops: Does not match stock, welding required if wanted
Recommended Fork: ZX10R
Difficulty to Find: Medium-Low
-Steering stem must be pressed out and a 650's stem pressed in to fit

Forks:
These are one of the two main points in doing a fork swap: much better suspension performance can be achieved with newer forks. For the upside-down forks you will be switching two, there are two main parts of the forks- an upper main housing that contains a spring and damping components, along with a bottom tube that moves up and down the main housing, and also has brake caliper mounts and holes to attach to the wheel axle. There are two forks needed- one that fits into the left triple clamp holes, and one for the right.

636
Average Price: $175
Usable Years: 03-08
Upper Clamp Area Diameter: 50mm
Lower Clamp Area Diameter: 52mm
Wheel: Requires new wheel- accepts a 25mm axle vs. the 20mm axle the 650's stock wheel uses
Recommended Upper Triple Clamps: All
Recommended Upper Triple Clamps: Z1000, Versys 650, 636
-(03-04)Requires 20mm spacers for calipers to reuse the stock 650 rotor (Forks designed for 280mm rotors vs. 300mm rotor on stock Ninja 650)
-(04-08)No spacers for calipers required

ZX10R
Average Price: $200
Usable Years: 04-10
Upper Clamp Area Diameter: 50mm
Lower Clamp Area Diameter: 54mm
Wheel: (04-05) Does not require new wheel- accepts a 20mm axle
Wheel: (06-10) Requires new wheel- accepts a 25mm axle vs. the 20mm axle the 650's stock wheel uses
Recommended Upper Triple Clamps: All
Recommended Upper Triple Clamps: Versys 650, ZX10R
-Only useful if the 04-05 years are used so you don't need to buy a new wheel


Brake Calipers and Brake Pads:
These are the second main reason to do the fork swap: much better braking performance can be achieved with the right calipers. These are the things that connect to the bottom fork tube brake caliper brackets that contain pads which make contact with the brake rotor attached to the wheel when you pull the brake lever in, creating resistance and slowing the bike down. You will need a pair of brake calipers, one for each rotor.

Concourse, 636, ZX14R
Average Price: $75
Usable Years: 03-06
Brand Name: Tociko
Effectiveness: These are a good, cheap option for brakes on a budget

Concourse, 636, ZX14R
Average Price: $150
Usable Years: 07+
Brand Name: Nissin
Effectiveness: These seem to be the better option, offering much better braking performance over the Tocikos


Wheel, Wheel Axle and Spacers:
The wheel is attached in between the two forks via the wheel axle, a long metal rod. Spaces are used on either side of the wheel to transfer load to the correct part of the wheel bearings. Replacements to the stock wheel/wheel axle are usually needed due to different wheel bearing/axle sizes with the new forks, depending on the path you wish to take.

For 636 Forks
636
Average Price: $175
Usable Years: 03+
Required Axle: 636
Axle Diameter: 25mm
Required Spacers: 636
Required Wheel Bearings: 636
Bearing Size: 47mm OD x 25mm ID x 10mm Wide

Stock 650
Average Price: N/A
Usable Years: All
Required Axle: 636
Axle Diameter: 25mm
Required Spacers: 636
Required Wheel Bearings: 636
Bearing Size: 42mm OD x 20mm ID x 10mm Wide
-Wheel bearing seating area must be milled out to fit the larger 636 bearings


For 04-05 ZX10R Forks
Stock 650
Average Price: N/A
Usable Years: All
Required Axle: ZX10R
Axle Diameter: 20mm
Required Spacers: ZX10R
Required Wheel Bearings: 650
Bearing Size: 42mm OD x 20mm ID x 10mm Wide

Front Fender:
This is the piece of plastic that hovers over the wheel that keeps road debris from hitting the bike. Because you will be swapping forks, the things with the mounting points for the fender, you must get a new front fender that matches the forks you are swapping with.

For 636 Forks
636
Average Price: $50
Usable Years: Must use 03-04 fender with 03-04 forks
Usable Years: Must use 05-08 fender with 05-08 forks

For 03-04 ZX10R Forks
636
Average Price: $50
Usable Years: 05-08

ZX10R
Average Price: $50
Usable Years: 04-10

Master Cylinder:
This is the thing that translates your pull of the brake lever to increasing pressure within the brake lines that causes the brake pads to press against the brake rotor. It is mounted to the handlebar and brake lever, and contains a piston that gets pushed with the lever and a reservoir that holds extra brake fluid. Because you will be using higher performing brake calipers, it is a good idea to use a new master cylinder that can force more pressure into the brake lines faster.

Stock
The stock master cylinder can be used effectively, however a performance decrease most likely occurs

Non-Stock
To get optimal braking performance, a radial-type master cylinder is required
Examples: CBR1000RR, R1
Average Price: $75-$100
-Make sure you have the master cylinder, reservoir and mounting bracket, and lever

Handlebars/Clip-Ons:
These are the things that mount to the upper triple clamp than you put your hands on. In some instances and swap cases, the new upper triple clamp will require a different setup than the stock handlebar, as the attachment method differs from the 650.

Stock
-If you have the Z1000 upper triple clamp and a 12-15 650, the stock handlebars and risers can be swapped over to the new uppers.
-This lets you keep the rubber mounted handlebars
-This also means that any aftermarket bars that use the 650 risers can be used (E.X. Sportbars)

Non-Stock Handlebars
Example: Protaper Trials Mid Rise
-If stock handlebars will not work, buying handlebars that match the upper triple will work if mounts are available
-This options means your handlebars will not be rubber mounted (Unlike 12-15 650s)
-636 and ZX10R upper triples will only work with clip-ons and do not have handlebar mounts

Clip-Ons
Example: Woodcraft
Example: Danmoto
Example: Apex
-This options means your handlebars will not be rubber mounted (Unlike 12-15 650s)
-For 12-15 650s, a clip-on riser must be used (Danmoto and Apex risers both work)

Brake Rotors:
These are the metal rings that bolt onto the wheel that the brake pads make contact with to slow the bike down. Some swap cases may or may not require to use new rotors, as the rotor diameter/mounting holes may be different than the other component allow.

Stock 650
There is never really a practical reason to use other rotors

Other Parts/Hardware:

-Caliper Mounting Bolts
-Steering Stem Bearings
-Banjo Bolts/Banjo Bolt Washers
-Brake Lines
-Rotor Mounting Bolts

Questions and Answers:
This is where I will link any questions asked regarding the swap from this thread, this forum, and even other forums. I will also link the corresponding answer(s)

Tips/Other Information
***This is where any other information is added, such as things to look out for, torque specs, techniques and DIY tools used, etc

-Kojiiro's DIY Fork Compressor::: RiderForums: "Starting the Fork Swap" --- Post 7

-You will need to hang your bike from the ceiling, or use a stand like the Abba superbike stand. Because you will be removing the triples, a standard front stand will not work.
----A front triple tree stand is helpful, however, as taking off the upper triple clamp can be difficult if the rope holding the bike from the ceiling is putting pressure on it.

-If you will be replacing the wheel, try to do this when you are needing to replace the tire anyway. Less work down the road.

-Since you are replacing the brakes, you must drain all brake fluid from the old system, then fill up the new system with new fluid. The calipers may take a while to fill up, so once the fluid slows down a bit, walk away for a few minutes and see is the level has changed.

-With a radial master cylinder, if you choose to go that route, you may have some trouble mounting it and having it interfere with the throttle cables. Refer to this post: MC Issues


Swap Guides:
This is where I will link any guides made for the swap, which may end up extending to other bikes as well

-Kojiiro's Fork Swap Guide::: RiderForums: "Starting the Fork Swap" --- Posts 1-3
-----Post 1-2 is precursor stuff, post 3 is the guide. Good for a step-by-step process of what he did for the swap.

-DJRussell's Fork Swap Guide::: RiderForums: "636 Fork Swap Completed" --- Post 1
-----He lists the main components he bought and a reasoning behind it

Resources:
This is where I will post links to threads and sites that I or others believe contains useful information regarding the swap

Fork Swap Threads
KawiForums: "636 Fork Swap"
-----Great, long thread detailing out a lot of different setups and opinions
BRP 650 Forum: "636 Front End Swap"
-----Decent thread that has some basic information and questions- very short
Adventure Rider Forums: "Kawi 650 on a Budget: Roadie-Adventurer"
ZX10R Fork Swap Blog Series
WebDC: "Part 1: Fork Selection"
WebDC: "Part 2: Caliper Selection"
WebDC: "Part 3: Which Triple Tree?"
WebDC: "Part 4: Putting it all Together"
WebDC: "Part 5: Selecting the Headlight"

Informational/Servicing
YouTube: "Steering Head Bearings: How to Replace and Adjust"
-----Good video detailing steering bearing replacement, if you plan on doing so with your used triples
KZRider: "Upside Down Fork Rebuild: 2.0"
-----Good thread detailing replacing fork seals on your new inverted forks, as it is highly recommended when buying used forks
KawiForums: "How-To: Dismantle Inverted Forks"
-----Good thread detailing replacing fork seals on your new inverted forks, as it is highly recommended when buying used forks
YouTube: "How To: Replace Fork Seals - 03-04 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R"
-----Good video detailing replacing fork seals on your new inverted forks, as it is highly recommended when buying used forks
-----This video is even detailing the same forks as you will be buying if you choose the 636 fork route!

Parts
EBay
-----Good site for finding motorcycle parts
WERA Classifieds
-----Good site for finding motorcycle parts
Craigslist
-----Good site for finding local motorcycle parts

I think the fork swap is a really cool project that can suit many levels of technical abilities, and my efforts here are to bring all the knowledge regarding the project to more people to make it easier to dive into.http://www.kawiforums.com/how-tos-faqs/184673-how-dismantle-inverted-forks-pic-heavy.html

 

[fencingdude101]

Reserved: 1

(Personal Fork Swap Review & Pictures)

 

[fencingdude101]

Reserved: 2

(Extra if needed)

 

[djrussell]

Here's my thread if you want to add it to the swap guides section. I think I covered all the details but I'm happy to answer questions as needed.

http://www.riderforums.com/ninja-650r-performance-upgrades/82795-636-fork-swap-completed.html

I'm also happy to have influenced your decision.

 

[kojiiro]

Minor edit to post 1. 03-06 calipers will actually work. DJ and I just decided on the Nissins due to their performance vs the other years. His thread also influenced me to grab Nissins rather than Tociko. Make it clear that 2007+ ZX6Rs have the Nissins (more expensive) and the previous years are Tocikos which will also work but supposedly arent as good as the Nissins.

-For bar options, DJ can give you more insight on using moto-x style bars.

-I removed the Z1000 riser and replaced with 650 risers and was able to use my sport bars if anyone is interested in keeping their sport bars.

-Some people (UnderworldBabe/Jen from 650 shop) have gone with a ZX6R triple and triple clip ons. Not sure how much modding that would take. I have looked into that but right now I am satisfied with my bike.

-I feel like on my bike I want to lower the forks a bit more. Will update my thread later if I do this today since I am doing my oil change later anyways.

-DJs guide should also be under that section

-RacinJason's thread in the Kawiforums is a huge 21+ page thread that shows lots of examples on how to accomplish this.

Tips***

-Hang your bike from the ceiling. It helps to have a triple tree stand. There were moments with the bike suspended from rope/ceiling that I needed the triple tree stand. Mentioned in my thread as well.
If you are going to suspend from the ceiling like I did, the position of the rope securing the frame of the bike to your ratchet tie down strap may prevent removing the triple.

This mod is great to do around when you are due for new tires, so you can mount the new one directly onto your new wheel. I made the mistake of doing it a few hundred miles after getting my Q3's but then again I was expecting this to be done next year lol.

When you do your brakes, after the brake res is no longer sucking down fluid as fast as when you first started, walk away. It can take some time to fill those calipers up.

With a Radial MC, bar positioning may get tricky. This definitely slowed me down. Not sure how it would play out for guys using the moto-x style bars.

Questions***
Possible question: Will I need to mod triples?
For my bike (gen 3) I had to mod the Z1000 triple slightly. Took some extra time (slowed my progress a bit). Had to cut off parts of it, shown in my thread. I am sure there will be a million more questions but this is one specifically for the Gen 3 owners out there. You will need to do some minor hacking of a Z1000 top triple if thats what you use.

 

[Menocee]

Nice thread!

 

[fencingdude101]

Kojiiro: Thanks for the post! The more information the better. All of that will be added shortly, just been busy and want to get some of my own stuff/formating up first.

Menocee: Donke! Glad at least a few people find this interesting!

DJRussell: Of course I didn't forget you: Your thread will be going up shortly, as well.

A few questions here:
1) DJRussell: You kept your original master cylinder, correct? Any reason for doing so and do you think it's limiting brake performance at all?
2) Kojiiro: Does the key lock still work on your Gen3 with the Z1000 upper triple?

 

[kojiiro]

Kojiiro: Thanks for the post! The more information the better. All of that will be added shortly, just been busy and want to get some of my own stuff/formating up first.

Menocee: Donke! Glad at least a few people find this interesting!

DJRussell: Of course I didn't forget you: Your thread will be going up shortly, as well.

A few questions here:
1) DJRussell: You kept your original master cylinder, correct? Any reason for doing so and do you think it's limiting brake performance at all?
2) Kojiiro: Does the key lock still work on your Gen3 with the Z1000 upper triple?

Key lock does not work with my bike and I never really use it anyway.

Also, make it clear that 03-04 ZX6R forks have brake caliper mounts for 280mm rotors, so thats extra money you need to spend on 10mm spacers if you think you are saving money on older forks. The 05-07 forks are easiest to work with and I am not sure who has done an 08+ swap which are the BPF forks, which may be 1-2mm thicker than the normal fork tubes, meaning you wont be able to use the above triples without machining them, which I believe WebDC did, if you follow the KawiForums thread.

 

[djrussell]

1) DJRussell: You kept your original master cylinder, correct? Any reason for doing so and do you think it's limiting brake performance at all?

Correct. No real reason except that it works. I haven't tried a radial one yet to make a comparison. The brakes seem to come on harder. I'm not sure if that's a result of a poorly chosen MC or the EBC HH pads that have more initial bite.

 

[fencingdude101]

Man, it has been a very busy week for me! Looks like I'll be stuck with a good bit of OT until the holidays here, but I should have the time to do the mass edit to all the info in this post over this weekend.

I did have a question- I finally found the thread that outlines the Danmoto clip-ons (Couldn't remember the name of them until I found the thread), as at this point I don't have sport bars and am debating whether or not to just go with the drastically cheaper ZX6R triple clamps then buy the Danmotos. Do either of you think you could lower the bike 1" with the ZX6R forks? I remember someone mentioning you can't go too far otherwise you run out of fork to clamp on to, and I know the danmotos take up an inch if you mount them above the triples.

Also, is the only change you need to make for the ZX6R triples welding on steering stops? Will the upper and lower clamps work otherwise?

Haven't been able to read through that nice, long 28 page thread on the Kawiforums that probably has all this information in it, so I apologize.

 

[kojiiro]

Man, it has been a very busy week for me! Looks like I'll be stuck with a good bit of OT until the holidays here, but I should have the time to do the mass edit to all the info in this post over this weekend.

I did have a question- I finally found the thread that outlines the Danmoto clip-ons (Couldn't remember the name of them until I found the thread), as at this point I don't have sport bars and am debating whether or not to just go with the drastically cheaper ZX6R triple clamps then buy the Danmotos. Do either of you think you could lower the bike 1" with the ZX6R forks? I remember someone mentioning you can't go too far otherwise you run out of fork to clamp on to, and I know the danmotos take up an inch if you mount them above the triples.

Also, is the only change you need to make for the ZX6R triples welding on steering stops? Will the upper and lower clamps work otherwise?

Haven't been able to read through that nice, long 28 page thread on the Kawiforums that probably has all this information in it, so I apologize.

The Danmotos were an option I looked at. They don't seem to have enough rise (48mm or something like that) to clear fairings if you go below the triple tree. That said, I have used clip on on my bike when I had the old conventional forks. I dropped the forks like 22mm or something and mounted the clip ons above the fairings. The geometry was a little bit awkward, I had to angle the bars upwards which made them flat, rather than angled downwards like how they are supposed to. The reason I say I don't think they have enough rise is because you may run into clearance issues with your master radial master cylinder. If you want to drop the forks, keep in mind the Z1000 triple is much thicker than a 636 triple. The Z1000 has 2 pinch bolts per side on the top triple, the ZX6R only has 1 per side. You have more room to lower the bike with that triple. I have read underworldbabes post regarding the ZX6R triple she used and I believe you may have to put in a spacer between the stem and triple if you are using a Z1000 lower with a ZX6R top, since the stems are slightly different in diameter. If you use ZX6R lower and top, it should be an exact fit.

I don't see anything wrong with dropping forks. I have done a ~22mm drop and it felt nice. This was on older forks. I intend on dropping the ZX6R forks soon.

An alternate to the DanMoto 3D clip-ons you mentioned are Apex fully adjustables. They cost a lot more. Keep in mind at this point neither myself or DJ have tried them and you are now entering "in theory" territory.

Z1000 upper and lower triples are a bolt on set for 06-11 Ninja 650s. They require a slight mod for 2012+ bikes which is sawing off the extra material.
ZX6R upper and lower are bolt on for all years. They require steering stops to be welded. Other riders have ran their bikes without, but I don't feel comfortable with that.
Z1000 Lower and ZX6R top will work, but you will need a spacer to fill the gap between the ZX6R top triple inner diameter and the smaller outer diameter of the Z1000 steering stem.
ZX6R lower triple and Z1000 top would probably not work unless you enlarged the Z1000 top triple since the ZX6R stem is thicker.

 

[fencingdude101]

The Danmotos were an option I looked at. They don't seem to have enough rise (48mm or something like that) to clear fairings if you go below the triple tree. That said, I have used clip on on my bike when I had the old conventional forks. I dropped the forks like 22mm or something and mounted the clip ons above the fairings. The geometry was a little bit awkward, I had to angle the bars upwards which made them flat, rather than angled downwards like how they are supposed to. The reason I say I don't think they have enough rise is because you may run into clearance issues with your master radial master cylinder. If you want to drop the forks, keep in mind the Z1000 triple is much thicker than a 636 triple. The Z1000 has 2 pinch bolts per side on the top triple, the ZX6R only has 1 per side. You have more room to lower the bike with that triple. I have read underworldbabes post regarding the ZX6R triple she used and I believe you may have to put in a spacer between the stem and triple if you are using a Z1000 lower with a ZX6R top, since the stems are slightly different in diameter. If you use ZX6R lower and top, it should be an exact fit.

I don't see anything wrong with dropping forks. I have done a ~22mm drop and it felt nice. This was on older forks. I intend on dropping the ZX6R forks soon.

An alternate to the DanMoto 3D clip-ons you mentioned are Apex fully adjustables. They cost a lot more. Keep in mind at this point neither myself or DJ have tried them and you are now entering "in theory" territory.

Z1000 upper and lower triples are a bolt on set for 06-11 Ninja 650s. They require a slight mod for 2012+ bikes which is sawing off the extra material.
ZX6R upper and lower are bolt on for all years. They require steering stops to be welded. Other riders have ran their bikes without, but I don't feel comfortable with that.
Z1000 Lower and ZX6R top will work, but you will need a spacer to fill the gap between the ZX6R top triple inner diameter and the smaller outer diameter of the Z1000 steering stem.
ZX6R lower triple and Z1000 top would probably not work unless you enlarged the Z1000 top triple since the ZX6R stem is thicker.

Man, time for some really rough decision making...
Sport bars + Z1000 upper/lower = ~$500, if you can find the Z1000 triples.
4" Apex Clip-Ons + 636 upper/lower + welding = ~350

With the bottom option, there will be more vibration. Hmmmmm....

Anyone know if the 636 forks are longer or shorter than stock?

 

[kojiiro]

Man, time for some really rough decision making...
Sport bars + Z1000 upper/lower = ~$500, if you can find the Z1000 triples.
4" Apex Clip-Ons + 636 upper/lower + welding = ~350

With the bottom option, there will be more vibration. Hmmmmm....

Anyone know if the 636 forks are longer or shorter than stock?

I can check tomorrow. I have duty today. I actually wrote the length for the ZX6R forks down, and already have the 650 forks off obviously so I just need to measure those.

With your dilemma, the Z1000 upper/lower triple is the tried and true method. Not sure if the Apex clip ons would work. I do not see why they wouldn't but it may cause you a headache or two getting it right.

 

[djrussell]

Good sets of triples come available with a little patience. But who has time for that?? There's a set on ebay now if you haven't seen them. Decent deal. Kawasaki Z1000 2007 07 08 09 Straight Upper Lower Triple Tree Clamp Clamps | eBay

I do see one weird thing though in that there are three lower clamp bolts on both sides. Mine only have two. ???

I'm not sure if the forks are longer or they just unload more but my tire still touches the ground when I use my head lift stand. It didn't do that before.

 

[kojiiro]

Good sets of triples come available with a little patience. But who has time for that?? There's a set on ebay now if you haven't seen them. Decent deal. Kawasaki Z1000 2007 07 08 09 Straight Upper Lower Triple Tree Clamp Clamps | eBay
I do see one weird thing though in that there are three lower clamp bolts on both sides. Mine only have two. ???

I'm not sure if the forks are longer or they just unload more but my tire still touches the ground when I use my head lift stand. It didn't do that before.

Right? I didn't, so I used the 6 months no interest deal with paypal lol.

Not sure if the year has anything to do with it or if it was altered by the seller. I would pass. Mine definitely does not touch the ground.

 

[fencingdude101]

Yeah, I thought only the 03-06 triples worked from the Z1000? I dunno.

Could someone also measure the distances between:
-The center of one fork to the center of the other
-The center of one fork to the center of the steering stem

I'm really just interested in the offset, however I figure a little trig on my part is easier than you trying to line everything up perfectly. I'm also trying to find measurements for the 636 on this front.
My goal here is to see the differences in geometry- namely trail (Which comes from offset, as the rake angle stays the same with the frame) and squat (Which comes from trail, fork length and positioning of the fork, as wheel size and rake angle stays the same)

Also, going to be researching rubber mounting Clip-ons. Maybe buy ones for a few mm larger and make it up with a rubber ring? Not sure where to buy one, we'll see. I'm really thinking the 636 triples are a better be in my mind, at least for now.

***EDIT***Idea, what if I bought one of those rubber rods, cut out the center, stuck it around the fork tubes, and installed an oversized-diameter Apex clip on? Obviously it would be a little more specific than that, but thoughts? It would still be rubber mounted then, just worried if it would move around too much or something.

 

[kojiiro]

Yeah, I thought only the 03-06 triples worked from the Z1000? I dunno.

Could someone also measure the distances between:
-The center of one fork to the center of the other
-The center of one fork to the center of the steering stem

I'm really just interested in the offset, however I figure a little trig on my part is easier than you trying to line everything up perfectly. I'm also trying to find measurements for the 636 on this front.
My goal here is to see the differences in geometry- namely trail (Which comes from offset, as the rake angle stays the same with the frame) and squat (Which comes from trail, fork length and positioning of the fork, as wheel size and rake angle stays the same)

Also, going to be researching rubber mounting Clip-ons. Maybe buy ones for a few mm larger and make it up with a rubber ring? Not sure where to buy one, we'll see. I'm really thinking the 636 triples are a better be in my mind, at least for now.

***EDIT***Idea, what if I bought one of those rubber rods, cut out the center, stuck it around the fork tubes, and installed an oversized-diameter Apex clip on? Obviously it would be a little more specific than that, but thoughts? It would still be rubber mounted then, just worried if it would move around too much or something.

I think I have read of 07 Z1000 triples being used. the thing with this is that it was with a different bike, but all those guys in that forum were mentioning that the 03 triples were a direct swap as well.

I can do measurements for you but I don't quite understand what you need. Center of one fork to center of other, as in center where the axle goes through? This in effect is the length of the axle, or thickness of the rim, however you want to look at it.

center of fork to center of steering stem, not sure how you want that but if its what I think you want, that would be an angle from left or right fork leg to the steering stem?

Don't bother with rubber mounting the clip ons if that's what you choose. I had mine with clip ons on the conventional forks for a few days and on 10-15 mile commutes it wasn't bad. I say don't bother cause I would rather have numb hands from vibrations than a clip on that isn't secure, with the possibility of it rotating.

 

[fencingdude101]

I think I have read of 07 Z1000 triples being used. the thing with this is that it was with a different bike, but all those guys in that forum were mentioning that the 03 triples were a direct swap as well.

I can do measurements for you but I don't quite understand what you need. Center of one fork to center of other, as in center where the axle goes through? This in effect is the length of the axle, or thickness of the rim, however you want to look at it.

center of fork to center of steering stem, not sure how you want that but if its what I think you want, that would be an angle from left or right fork leg to the steering stem?

Don't bother with rubber mounting the clip ons if that's what you choose. I had mine with clip ons on the conventional forks for a few days and on 10-15 mile commutes it wasn't bad. I say don't bother cause I would rather have numb hands from vibrations than a clip on that isn't secure, with the possibility of it rotating.

Ahh rotation... yeah, didn't even think about that I guess, that would probably be an issue. You gotta think there's a reason no one makes rubber mounted clip-ons...

As for the measurements, imagine this was the top of the upper triple installed on your bike:

I need to find length A (From center to center of the top of the forks) and B (Front center of the top of a fork to center of steering stem). Then I can use the law of sin to find the angles, then use that to find length C (Offset)

Does that make a little more sense?

 

[kojiiro]

Ahh rotation... yeah, didn't even think about that I guess, that would probably be an issue. You gotta think there's a reason no one makes rubber mounted clip-ons...

As for the measurements, imagine this was the top of the upper triple installed on your bike:
View attachment 82957
I need to find length A (From center to center of the top of the forks) and B (Front center of the top of a fork to center of steering stem). Then I can use the law of sin to find the angles, then use that to find length C (Offset)

Does that make a little more sense?

A-B= 210mm
A-C= 108-110 (not accurate because the two points I was measuring from were the center of the rebound adjuster and the center of the triple bolt, and they aren't parallel to each other).

 

[fencingdude101]

A-B= 210mm
A-C= 108-110 (not accurate because the two points I was measuring from were the center of the rebound adjuster and the center of the triple bolt, and they aren't parallel to each other).

Awesome thank you- that's pretty close to the stock triples, cool.