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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I finally got most of my parts in and decided to start documenting my progress. If all goes well I can have this done in 2 weeks. Determining factor will be if the 2013 Ninja 650 risers line up the same as the holes on the 2003 Top Triple risers which would allow me to use my Sport bars meaning I dont have to wait for money (next pay check) to complete this. As an alternate, I could use (God no please!) stock bars just for the sake of getting the swap completed.

I have read quite extensively into this mod and sometime early this year was going to do it if you guys recall the hot topic suspension thread at the time. Alot of information is out there. Alot of it was on the Kawi forums, alot on this forum for the 650 and other bikes as well.

After reading djrussels posts I finally just said no more thinking about it, just do it! If you dont want to bother reading through the dozens of pages on other sites and here, his thread pretty much consolidates what you need to do for a truly bolt on fork swap. I still highly suggest reading all the other threads, lots of great information, different ways to get it done, etc. I wanted to save money and do some welding but then things got too complicated without those tools, running around town, etc and this is the easier but more expensive way to do it.

As it stands I have the top and bottom triples en route in one package, and a master Cylinder fluid res coming in as well.

The rest of the stuff is pictured here:

Picked up my 2006 Ninja 636 front wheel locally for $150 today with rotors. I didnt want gold cause I would end up spending money on powder coating. At the price I paid though it was hard to resist.



2005 Ninja 636 forks, 2005 Ninja 636 axle, 2008 Concours Caliper bolts, homemade fork compressor and shaft holding tool.



Demo of fork compressor in action. It works great. Spent around $15 dollars in aluminum and nuts/bolts, along with a piece of 2x4 and some screw laying around. Works as intended, coupled with my hydraulic car jack. A screw jack would work fine too and give you more control (slower compression)



2008 Concours calipers (Nissins), Concours brake lines removed, 2008 CBR Radial Master Cylinder ($40 locally from CL. Previous owner upgraded to a Brembo MC), and cheapo black brake levers off ebay. The Concours, 07+ ZX6R, and ZX14 all use the same brakes. I believe DJ got his from a ZX14. If its good enough to stop a Concours or ZX14, its good enough for a 650? Overkill imo but hey, its what I want. Not liking the Concourse lines, they have 2 extra joints that I dont care for so I will probably end up using my stock 650 lines for now, or some SS lines a buddy at work will give me if he can find them. I will end up with SS either way, either now or later.



Another pic of those Nissins!



I will edit this first post with pics when the Brake Fluid Res and 2003 Z1000 upper/lower triple come in.

Overall I am pretty excited to get started. I wanted to wait until I had all the parts in but just couldnt wait lol. I think this weekend I will drain the old fork oil and give them a quick disasembly and refill.

I was afraid that at the price I got the Concours calipers for that they would be garbage. They were in very good condition aesthetically and I was afraid they would have internal probs. Tonight I tried sticking them onto the ZX6r wheel. The pads were too close so I stuck a screwdriver in between the pads and pried them open gently. No binding!

The Gold rim isnt my favorite color but again, at that price, with rotors, I couldnt resist. Rotors oddly have good bolts on one side and 2 or 3 rusty ones on the other side. No matter, I can reuse my 650 bolts or just not be cheap and get some at CG. Or get some anodized ones and make it look pretty.

06 Oct

Received MC brake fluid res:



Took the brakes apart:


Components out of the caliper. Pads had 2.9-3mm of material left. Service manual says 1mm is the limit.


Took the forks apart. Heres one of the legs:


I happen to like Amsoil, had some left from my Intiminator project, and it was the same weight recommended in the manual:


Forks are all done.



Triples are in:

Top


Lower


Bearings, locking ring, washer, etc:


Heres a pic of the Sport bars/ sport bars 1" riser/ Ninja 650 1" riser mounted on top of the Z1000 triple. I intend on using the top triple and sport bars clamp without the 1 " riser. The stock Z1000 risers are wider so you will not be able to use ninja 650 sport bars unless you take the risers off a 2012+ Ninja 650 and use those in conjunction with the sport bar riser/clamp.



Puig Fender arrived yesterday, havent assembled it because there were 4 scratches in the protective plastic and I am not sure if its down to the fender or not and wanted to keep it "unused" until the retailer let me know what I can do. No fault on the retailer at all, it was covered in protective plastic, sealed in a bag, and sealed in a box, which arrived in another box.

 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Heres some random filler content until I can start piecing the front end, which I do not want to start until I get the Bel-Ray grease I ordered in:

05 636

LHS/RHS Fork legs: 3.835 KG each, 29" from center of axle to top of outer tube

Nissin Calipers : 1.15 KG each with pads/hardward, no fluid

05 ZX6R Rim/rotors: 7.280 KG

03 Z1000 lower triple w/hardwar 2.17 KG

03 Top triple 2.12 KG with ignition, bar clamp
03 Top triple no ignition, no clamp 1.405 kg
03 Risers 25mm in height
03 Top triple thickness 38.6 mm

ninja 650 sport bars clamp+riser/ 650 1" bar riser .985 kg

Doorbell just rang and I guess the post office delivers on sunday. Grease is here!



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I want to get these onto the bike


Another pic




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Will update more after I get some grease in the wheel bearing, steering stem bearings, etc and as I get more time to work on the bike. Wife and kids taking my garage time!
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
o Remove fairings from bike.
o Suspend bike on rear and from above, or if you have the bike lift that Vic mentions in one of his threads, suspend it that way. Triple tree stand will not work when you replace the triple. They are however extremely handy to have. I had to use mine because the rope holding the bike up was so taught I could not remove the top triple. You may have better luck.
o Remove brake switch, remove master cylinder from bar, slide down through fairings.

o Remove calipers. Make sure not to scratch rim as the calipers are slid off the rotor. Remove brake lines from clamps.
o If you intend on reusing your brake lines, start draining the brake fluid.

o Remove Fender.

o Remove wheel.

o Loosen upper triple pinch bolt.
o Loosen lower triple pinch bolts.
o Remove fork leg.

o Repeat for other side.

o Loosen both LHS/RHS bars. Remove and let them hang from the side.
o Remove locking clips from under the 650 riser bolts, unscrew bolts and remove the risers/Sportbar riser plate/ Sportbar bar clamp as one unit by lifting straight up. This pic depicts the triples not being able to slide out due to tension being put onto the triples by the green rope(not to mention the nut is still on, but the point of the pic is to show the rope prevents you from being able to take the top triple off easily).

o Install onto Z1000 top triple

o Remove stem bolt from 650 top triple. Remove grease seal, locking rings andwasher (pry tabs upwards)

o Install Z1000 triple. Be sure to apply grease. I used Bel-Ray grease that came to my house on Sunday (odd, over a 4 day weekend). It should be the lower bearing and triple inserted through the tube, then top bearing, race, locking ring, tab, second ring and then top triple and stem bolt. (it is in fact a bolt DJ, it looks like a ring until its completely off hehe). Check for movement, check torque. I believe at this point DJ had issues with the fork leg hitting the coolant res and was resolved by shimming. We will see how it works for a gen 3. No issues with coolant res. Did have the first major issue though. I had to saw off 2 posts off the triple, they were hitting the center piece of the triple. This slowed my progress by about 30 minutes.


All good now



o Install Install 636 forks through the tubes. Align by inserting axle through the mounting holes and then tighten the triple pinch bolts. I have read an alignment procedure in the manual where you twist the bars left and right but i would imagine that would require the pinch bolts not completely tightend, and I am not too confident in that with alot of weight on the front tire. Im scared the tubes will sink through the triples.
o Install calipers. Torque to spec
o Install lines and banjo bolts with new crush washers. Torque to spec.


o Install MC onto bars, check for clearance, tighten down. Install line with new crush washer, check for clearance and tighten down. This took longer than I expected as well. Between finding a good place on the bar, removing the MC and adjusting the Banjo Bolt, this added literally about an hour of just adjusting and finding the right fit.

o Add brake fluid and begin the process of bleeding. This step took longer than expected as well and I ended up taking a break at this point cause I could not get them bled well enough for my liking. I mentioned in another thread I wanted to try a reverse bleed. I just realized this would only be possible on MCs with bleed valves. EDIT: I did some more researching and I think this may be incorrect. You may be able to to take a large syringe and hose, fill it up with fluid, hook up to the furthest caliper's bleed screw (after the old fluid has been drained from both calipers/lines/MC), open the bleed screw, and force the fluid upwards. The CBR MS I have has it and I may try this when I get SS lines.
o Install fender.
No fender look

Puig Fender

Again

o Double check everything for correct torque spec, clearance. Check your brakes. This project is something where you will not want a failure. No brakes? Incorrect triple tree pinch bolt torque? Leaking brake line? Any of these and more will quickly ruin your ride. Cruise around the block and test your brakes out before doing any riding on the highway/canyons/whatever. If its a busy neighborhood you may want to go somewhere else.

Here she is all done. Took about 6 hours and 40 minutes. I didnt expect bleeding to take so long, placement of MC to take so long, and I definitely did not expect any cutting, but then again all the write ups I have read were for previous generation bikes, so yeah different fairings.

Took it for a quick around the block. The suspension feels about as good as my old set up, but I havent set anything yet, so it is already off to a good start.

The brakes are amazing! They sure do stop you quick, but its not overwhelming, like grabbing a handful of brakes on the stock ones. Doing that on stock felt sudden and the nose would still suddenly dive, there was no gradual shortening of the forks ( I am referring strictly to a sudden application of the brakes, not normal stopping). With the nissins you just slowed down REALLY fast and no sudden nose dive. The front end actually would compress slowly but it never bottomed out. It was only a quick circle around the block but tomorrow I will see how much it really stops, maybe even attempt a stoppie or three.

And thats the whole write up. Hope it helps some one, and feel free to ask questions. I will have my for sale ad up soon.
 

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I don't know if you explained in another thread but can you give me a rundown on your spring compressor. I may be needed to make one this winter ;)

Also, if you really dislike the gold why don't you pull the rotors, cover the bearings, clean the wheels really well, scuff sand and paint them black with a rattle can until you get around to powder coating them?
 

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Can't wait to see the progress, subbed! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't know if you explained in another thread but can you give me a rundown on your spring compressor. I may be needed to make one this winter ;)

Also, if you really dislike the gold why don't you pull the rotors, cover the bearings, clean the wheels really well, scuff sand and paint them black with a rattle can until you get around to powder coating them?
The compressor is fairly simple. I used a 2 foot long piece of 2x4. I then went and bough a 2 foot long piece (If you can find a smaller scrap piece for less money, do that) 1.5"x 1.5" aluminum angle bar. Steel would work too.

- I cut (2) 2 " pieces so I had (2) 1.5"x1.5"x2" pieces of angle bar.
-Place the two bars together in a vise or clamp and make sure they cant move. Then drill a hole through both of them. This ensure the holes are lined up. You will want the two holes to end up close to the edge. I threaded the holes with an M6 size thread but you dont need to (if you dont have or dont want to buy the tools to do it) if you use nuts to lock them in place. That is what the nuts do, locks the bolts in place and prevents them from moving up/down/in/out.
-Place the 2 piece you just made onto your 2x4 and line them up. Drill a hole into one, screw it down, realign the other one, drill a hole into it, and screw it down as well.
-All done!

To use, you need to put it into a vise. If you dont have one but have a workbench, you could fasten it to the side of the workbench. If you do need to fasten it with screws or something make sure it isnt too high or your car jack may not reach high enough and wont be able to compress the fork.
-Remove the fork cap. I found once you get the cap loose, you can hold your wrench/socket on top of the fork cap with one hand, and use the other to rotate the gold upper tube.
-The plastic spring spacer will slide out when you push the bottom of the fork up, exposing the 2 holes. I unscrewed the right hand side bolt on the compressor all the way out, slid the fork spacer onto the left side bolt, lined the fork up, and screwed the right side compressor bolt into the hole.
-The fork leg can now dangle from this while you slide a car jack under the bottom of the fork. I put a piece of wood in between. When you start compressing the fork, the outer fork tube may hit the bottom part of the angle bar. Just go slow as the fork compresses and make sure to pull/guide the outer fork tube outwards towards you so it doesnt hit the angle bar and start scratching itself. Also make sure it doesnt get caught under the angle bar otherwise your outer tubes will really start to get scratched up.
-If you use a hydraulic jack like I did, as you compress, the jack will start sliding with its wheels. I just put one end of the jack against the table and my foot against the other end to keep if from moving.

I write too much and if I confused more than I helped, ask! I can get pics if you need more.

EDIT: Yeah I considered spraying the front rim. I might do it, depending on what paint is still lying around the house.
 

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Ah makes sense now. Clever idea.
 

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Lookin' good so far. :) I'll see if I can get you the upper triple measurements but your parts may arrive first. It's been really busy here lately.
 

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Found a 2013 636 being parted out locally, is it possible to use the forks on the 2013 650? Or do I need the whole front end ie; wheel, brakes, triple etc. from various machines. Trying to keep costs down for now, that said, what are the forks worth aprox?

Looks like a great project! Have fun.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Found a 2013 636 being parted out locally, is it possible to use the forks on the 2013 650? Or do I need the whole front end ie; wheel, brakes, triple etc. from various machines. Trying to keep costs down for now, that said, what are the forks worth aprox?

Looks like a great project! Have fun.
I am not sure if anyone has done a 2013 636 fork swap. I know they went to BPF with 2009+ bikes which means you will need a different set of triples. Your stock wheel will not work with the 05-09 636/ZX6r forks for sure, let alone the 2009+ BPF's as the bearing/axle is a 25mm(not sure for the BPF forks if they also use a 25mm axle/bearing) vs the 20 mm axle/bearing you have right now. You could bore out the wheel well to fit a 25mm bearing but then you would have to buy new bearings and the center piece (hub I believe its called). You would then need to find a set of triples that will take your fork since they are bigger than the previous USD forks by 2mm. Then after that you need to make sure the stem is the correct dimensions.

What forks were you referring to when you asked how much they are worth? This will have varying answers. Newer forks/better condition will cost more but the average for scuffed forks when I was looking (sepcifically 05-08) was around $90 per leg before shipping. I got a good deal with mine for $189 with axle/spacers and shipping.

There is an entire 23+ page thread (thats just one of them too) on kawi forums that you can read which explains A LOT. This swap is not for people who just want to drop stuff in. Its not for someone looking to save money without fronting money first. It can be a cheap mod but there are no guarantees that people will buy your old parts that you swapped out. The mod can get cheaper if you put more work into it (make your own tools, do your own welding, etc). You can save more money by being patient with ebay. I got a killer deal on the calipers. I also found the calipers by searching for concours calipers which were exactly the same but I guess the market for them is cheaper only because of the name ( they are the exact same part number). A little luck helps as well. So far I have very much enjoyed tinkering with the parts as they come in, and cant wait for the triples to complete the project.
 

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@djrussell I believe you have already performed this swap right?
@kojiiro I hope you dont mind me asking both of you here, But im curious to what your gaining from this swap. Is it being able to set preload? Are you getting wider fronts and matching with wider rears?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@Viperwolf. What DJ said. I did the intiminator mod and the difference wasnt as "night and day" as some might claim but it was there. After doing my rear shock upgrade I knew I wanted an adjustable fork, not just something that emulates a cartridge. If its not as a "night and day" as I think, at the least I get much better brakes. I also get my wrenching fix lol.

You get preload, compression and rebound damping, not just preload. All are externally adjusted.

@ DJ : I was pretty disappointed last night, saw a great deal in the local CL ads. forks, front AND rear rim with tires for $150. Sandstone , so a closer color match to mine but someone beat me to it. It listed the day after I bought my rim lol. Oh well. Everything happens for a reason. Maybe it was in worse shape than my current purchase.
 

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Thanks for the reply. Was definatly wanting it to be more of a swap out lol. I think I will try and go with springs/emulators and swap out rear shock before I try and conquer a major mod like this. Will for sure be watching this thread, I did read through DJ's thread, very cool stuff!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I should have some intiminators up for sale in a month or so. Do your research on intiminators and gold valves and see whats roght for you.
 

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@ DJ : I was pretty disappointed last night, saw a great deal in the local CL ads. forks, front AND rear rim with tires for $150. Sandstone , so a closer color match to mine but someone beat me to it. It listed the day after I bought my rim lol. Oh well. Everything happens for a reason. Maybe it was in worse shape than my current purchase.
Doh! That would have been a great deal. But like you said, could have been in bad shape.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Will do! Why the down time? I am fairly certain I got it but Ill give you a call if I need help, and thanks!
 

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Will do! Why the down time? I am fairly certain I got it but Ill give you a call if I need help, and thanks!
I am doing a similar swap. As an aside, I am using 04 05 ZX10 forks which are essentially identical, but for black slider surface. Maybe spring rate but for some reason they are way cheaper to aquire. Mine cost like $160 with the bottom triple on fleabay. They needed seals but still.

I am using cbr600rr brakes and triples.
 
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