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THE JUDGE
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711 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This isn't really a "fun" topic, but I've been watching Headline news, and reading on CNN about "smart cards". Have you all heard about them? What do you think?

(I'm NOT wanting a debate!!!) Only opinions regardless of whether your opnions agree or disagree with mine and anybody else's....

I'm just curious to see what other people out there are thinking about this. I know that they have said military personnel will be going to them (not sure if it's ALL military) and I know we have a lot of military people here.....I want to know everyone's opinion....the good, the bad and the ugly....(hey, wasn't that a movie).

Just something to think about.
 

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West Coast Moderator
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12,996 Posts
Whatsa smart card?
 

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The Commander
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I think they're AWESOME!!!! I gotta assume that for someone who's job is fighting financial crimes that could be thwarted by this type of technology, Tom agrees with me!! ;) Basically, a "Smart Card" in the context of what's been in the news lately is a biometric identification device. The card contains a computer chip that can be imbedded with some sort of biometric identification information (fingerprint, retina scan, etc.) so that when you go to use it, you have to prove that you're who you say you are before you are allowed. They've talked about assigning a national ID card that would be a "smart card" that would allow "pre-authorized" people to breeze through security checkpoints at airports (and as a business traveler, I'd LOVE that). For the Military, they will use the "smart card" not just as an ID card but to also allow personnel to purchase things on base with them. If all credit cards had that sort of technology, there would be virtually no credit card fraud. Some people think it's a violation of civil liberties to have to provide a fingerprint to use a credit card. Personally, I've got nothing to fear by proving my identity, so it doesn't scare me at all.
 

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West Coast Moderator
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12,996 Posts
Oh, that "smart card" (like I really know). Actually it is a great idea. If I can give up a little blood for DNA in case they have to indentify my remains, I can damn sure give up a finger print for something I can use while I'm alive.
 

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Registered
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70 Posts
Sounds good to me. I hate the fact that my checking acct is linked to a credit card that anyone could swipe. Crime sucks.
 

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THE JUDGE
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711 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Help me understand.....I honestly don't understand them totally....but I've heard comments from others I've talked to about them that said these cards are just another way for the government to track our every move. Is that true? Would these be linked to money, or simply ID cards??
 

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The Commander
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5,020 Posts
For the general population, they'd mostly be just used as positive ID cards. Since the Military is a closed environment, they might use them for financial transactions as well. College campuses have been using the same type of thing for years, giving students an ID card that they (or their parents) can transfer funds to and then use it to purchase things on campus. It's a hell of a lot better than carrying cash around. Some people are afraid of "big brother" looking in on them. Personally, I have nothing to hide so I don't care what the government knows about me. If it helps keep us all safer, I'm all for it. The people who worry about it are the same ones who were complaining about the new legislation passed this week that expanded the FBI's wire-tapping authority. Again, I've got nothing to hide so I'm not worried about them tapping my phone.
 

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Dirty Harry.... Moderator
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9,816 Posts
Smart card is a very good idea...

Hey Jarel, excellent posts man. I agree with you, it's only the bad guys and the ACLU that are gonna ***** and moan. I say, tough SH*T! With all the identify fraud we have now and not being able to track certain folks from paying cash for flight lessons for one reason only, well it's about time. Every thing has changed since
9-11. We are gonna have to learn to deal with more restrictions or pay the price. Ok, I better stop now, Tom :mad: :yell:
 

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Registered
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499 Posts
smart card

Yes!!! Although I am personally against any type of imbedded ID, as it's no ones business as to what I do, this is just one more step towards........never mind, it's a religious thing.
Anyway, Yes, let's do it!!!
 

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Ok, I'll say it... The Mark of the Beast. There. "...shall not buy or sell save ye have the mark". Sounds too close to the same thing to me. Uncle Sam already knows more about me than he needs. And No I don't have anything to hide either, but gee whiz, think of the consequences. What if all that info, or control of it were in the wrong hands? I'm not too afraid of my own government if I elected it. But that would give Big Brother too much control. Sure the benefits sound good, but the possible drawbacks could be far greater than you or I could imagine.

I had some man call my house today asking about my wifes business. Said it was a "service call' or something to aid the local businesses. Didn't help that they had a "middle- eastern" accent, but whoever it was already had WAY more information than I was comfortable with while asking for more, and couldn't/wouldn't give me the info that would make me comfortable with them. Bye-Bye.

Call me crazy, paranoid, scared or whatever. Doesn't bother me, but don't think I'm gonna take a big bite of s#!&* cake just because the frosting looks good. How far does it go? Ask our Cannadian, English and Australian brothers just how far gun registration went. Information is a very powerful thing, the most powerful thing in todays world. Do you want all that power in one place for the wrong powers to be in control of? All your eggs in one basket so to speak.

If you don't want these chips embedded(or injected) think about this. Say we go to these smart cards. Do away with credit cards, drivers licenses, birth certificates etc. Now everything that proves you are you is on this card.... Then you lose your wallet, it gets stolen, or destroyed. How much trouble is it gonna be to get things fixed and how long is it gonna take before your life is back to normal and how are you gonna function in the mean time, everything was on that card? How long before someone says "Hey, lets just embed this chip. (at birth even) Then we wont have all these problems." Just like they're saying now in favor of the "Smart Cards". How long? Have you seen the comercial where the guy puts the groceries under his coat only to get stopped as he leaves the store by the security guard who says "Stop, you forgot your reciept"? you know the one. How long? It could be closer than any of us realise. Food for thought.


Off the soapbox now:yell:, assuming my usual low key position among the membership. :angel:
 

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The Commander
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All of the "information" you're talking about is already in your state DMV database. We're in the information age, no way around it other than a shack in Montana with money under the mattress. You make it sound like if we go to a national ID card with a fingerprint or retina scan, that we're pre-authorizing the government to imbed chips in our babies!! Geez! :rolleyes: We're still a democracy, and our government can't do anything that the majority of us don't support, so I think it's a tad alarmist to carry that thought through to the "big brother" argument. If I can replace my state driver's license with a federal ID that has my fingerprint on the card, then every time I go to use a credit card I have to show my ID and verify my fingerprint, I've just prevented ANYONE from stealing my identity and/or money! I can't think of a rational argument against that sort of safety. I'm not advocating the "universal" card for everyone that will get rid of all other credit cards and such, and I certainly wouldn't support imbedded chips, but taking the ID step will eliminate identity theft and allow Tom to retire! :D
 

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Silver Member
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479 Posts
I agree with Greg on this. It's actually make the identity theft easier, if you have all information about you in one place. And, yes, DMV already has all the information, so what the point to spend money on the implementation of one more ID card? Fingrprints? DNA, and retina scans? So what, is goverment going to spend money to put retina scanners in grocery stores?
 

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Dirty Harry.... Moderator
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To be sure this is going to be a "hot topic" for our elected officials. Let's hope they do the right thing. For most of us, it should not be much of a problem, it's at our Nation's borders, Mexico, Canada, and our International Airports that it might serve us extremely well (esp. with tracking student visas and their activity and other foreign travel in and out of this country). And this is not the age of Hoover's FBI regime. Things have changed. Big Brothers' not as big as you might think. Tom :)
 

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West Coast Moderator
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Having worked for big brother in a couple different capacities, he's not as organized as you may think, either.
 

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Dirty Harry.... Moderator
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Yup Martin you are right, and the military is probably much more organized than Federal law enforcement. But we all get the job done, sooner or later. and BTW, I'll have to tell you some instances in which the Air National Guard did us some great services in the past (and still do). Tom :D
 
Z

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Guest
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I'm all for a national ID/Drivers License. The imbedded thing scares me though. I don't mind the fingerprint or retina scan, thats really not to intrusive. State Motor Vehicles and the credit card companies already know more than we think, so the national ID would be of great help to combat identification fraud/theft. I'm currently investigating four identification thefts from last month. It's a bear trying to deal with out of state DMV's, banks, and credit card companies. As many have already stated, I don't have anything to hide from big bro, so it wouldn't effect me much. Although, it could easily get out of hand if the wrong people had access or the wrong people took power of the gov't. Oh well, there really isn't any foolproof system yet.

Just my two centavos worth. :D

Pete
:angel:
 

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Dirty Harry.... Moderator
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Hey Pete, it can get worse. There is already talk of more lenient search and seizure authority in regards to terroism (let's hope that doesn't expand any further). I think the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals will be busy with appeals on search warrant issues in the future. I can see some big issues coming up in 2nd and 4th amendment (weapons and detention/arrests) rights and 5th amendment rights (foreign nationals), and maybe 8th amendment problems (as to punishment). Think the defense bar is ready for these causes? I do. Tom
 

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Registered
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Hmmm, big gooey can 'o worms, eh? I'm not screaming "the sky is falling" all I'm saying is look up. Before you go agreeing to what seems to be a good idea, think through all the angles. Even the mideval Crusades(murder rape and pillage) were carried out as a good idea for the betterment of the people. Classic case of power in the wrong hands in the name of progress. And as jarel so rightly put it "We are in the information age", and that is where the power is. An all powerful government is dangerous. Ever heard the saying "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"? All it takes is for one crackpot over zealous shiester to win an election and things happen one step at a time, people get fat happy and lazy and give up their freedoms one bit at a time, forgetting where they came from and what prices were paid to get where they are. The Germans are a very intelligent people, do you think they all woke up one morning and decided the extermination of an entire race was in their best intrest? Nope, 1 crackpot gained power and convinced them. I'd rather not have that kind of power lying around, for you see, it's not the card that is the weakness, it's the system. Ever heard"give an inch, they'll take a mile"?

The intention behind these cards is a very good one, and it's legitimate. But I have no intention of giving up freedom for convenience.

I'm not saying pre-authorize anything, not in the least. What I'm saying is don't readily give up any rights, freedoms or privacy. That's the difference between being a citizen or a subject.

Don't even get me started on gun control.:mad:

You can call me an Alarmist if you want, I prefer realist. No I dont have an arsenal and a years C-rations buried in my back yard but I don't have my head in the sand either.

Here is a word of wisdom straight from me."If you ever quit listening to the boy crying wolf, whether he is right or wrong, one day he will be right and the wolf will eventually get the sheep." Listen to the warnings Pete and Tom are sending out right now.
 

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some of you may not know; that in some states (NC), your drivers liscence already has coded information on the back of it similar to military id cards. I am not sure what information is stored there or even if the state has devices to read it or a system to use it to the fullest potential.... Maybe Tom will know. I do know that the capability is there.:smilewink
 

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THE JUDGE
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711 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
In Texas, our Drivers Licenses already have the bar code stripe on the back. I've heard a variety of things about this.....it's not fully operational yet, it has something on it (I don't know what)...

I've never seen anyone "swipe" the card in a reader....not a policeman, or people in stores.....so, I suspect they may not be fully operational yet, but set up for when things ARE ready. Does anybody else from Texas know what exactly that little stripe on the back is for??
 
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