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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Woke up this morning with dead low and high beams. They both worked yesterday!

Battery died after a hard cold start while I was out and boosted the battery to get home. I left it on charge for a few hours and went for a ride. Everything worked, but when I started my bike to get to work this morning I had no headlights at all and no high beam indicating light on the dash. I've checked all my fuses and they are all good. Both the battery and voltage regulator were changed 4 months ago with about 10,000km of use.

*all other lights work including the front center running light and dash lights.

Any suggestions? I don't think it's the stator as the bike runs fine until I physically shut it down.
 

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American Legion Rider
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It does sound like you aren't getting the battery charged while riding, however, it takes about a 20 mile ride to recharge the battery from just one start. You need to do some diagnostics to determine. First, make certain all connections are clean and tight. Then with a multimeter, check the voltage at the battery while engine is running. If less than 13 volts then chances are good, either you got a bad regulator or stator. Just because you added a new battery and regulator, either could be bad from the beginning. But a poor ground can cause issues as well. So start there first. The following is from another site but might be just what you need here. I don't know if yours is single phase or 3 phase though so there is that.

Testing a 3 Phase alternator / Stator

Engine and key off static test....


There are A/C output and 12v DC direct output types; this article will focus on the A/C type.



Actual Test:

There are either 3 wire, or two wire systems, and the tests will be the same for both. (set of white or set of yellow wires)

You will need a multi meter for the following test/s.

Switch your meter to a low Ohms setting, a 200 or less setting preferably, but a 2k setting will work. “Resistance” or “Ohms”


Test 1:

Disconnect the stator harness from the rectifier/regulator, the three yellow wires; you want to test each one individually to ground. Place the Red meter probe in a yellow wire cavity, black meter probe to a chassis ground. Test each wire (3 tests)


This should be an open circuit with an “infinity or OL” reading on meter.

Acceptable Infinity readings “can” be (00000000, OL, -----------, 11111111111, or any of these and flashing.

This will indicate they are functional and considered as GOOD.



If you get an actual numerical reading there is a short to ground, and that coil will be considered as BAD. All 3 coils are connected, and one bad one will short the rest in succession. That’s why you test all 3, this lets you know if one is bad, or two, or 3 etc…

If one is bad, replace it!







Test 2:

All three of the yellow wires, when testing from yellow to yellow and so on till you have checked each combination of the three should test… 0.2 - 0.5 ohms “roughly”, and be no more than 0.1 difference from each of the three readings.

Example:

(wire 1 to wire 2 “reading one” - wire 2 to wire 3 “reading two” - wire 3 to wire 1 “reading three”)

These three readings are the ones you compare, and should not differ any more than 0.1 Ohms from each other.

Any abnormal variation in readings or higher resistance numbers will indicate a weak coil and will not produce a full charge, and should be replaced

There is typically 3 coils (3 wires), but can also contain 2 coils (2 wires).




Test 3:

Engine on dynamic output test


Switch your multi-meter to A/C mode (voltage).

Test the voltage between the terminals of the stator coil (yellow wire to yellow wire)

3 tests (3 wire combinations), each wire combination should read same voltage at 3,000 rpm. You should get a reading of anywhere between 20 and 60 volts A/C.

Any voltage reading below 40 volts A/C will indicate a weak magnetic rotor, and will not charge under full power loads (lights, gauges, accessories). Also, whatever voltage reading you get isn’t as important Unless it’s less than 20VAC — at 3,000 rpm, this would indicate a burnt coil/s and should be replaced.

The more important thing is that there is a voltage reading on all terminals and they’re all pretty similar in the readings, with no more than 1.0 Volt variance. Any singular reading with a no voltage reading or vary more than 1.0v between the three readings will be faulty, and is bad.

An A/C motorcycle alternator will need a minimum power output of 20VAC, to "minimally" power the bike but will have a hard time charging the battery, and will not power any accessories, such as lights, phone chargers, flasher systems etc..





Test 4:

Note: The abbreviation “R/R” will be used as short hand for the Rectifier/Regulator.

The R/R is responsible for taking the A/C voltage and rectifying it to a D/C voltage, and then regulates it so the power produced does not over charge the battery.

An R/R will take the non used voltage and “burn” it to ground (waste). This burn will produce heat, and is the most common reason for the R/R to fail, it literally burns up from not being able to dissipate the heat it generates (waste) fast enough.

You can upgrade and expand on its ability to dissipate the heat to extend the life, by making sure it has a flat metal surface to mount to the frame with so this grounding will have a larger “surface area” to accept and dissipate the heat faster, or a computer CPU heat sink bolted to the back side, or even relocated in a place with better air flow. It has been debated by some, but OEM locations very seldom have adequate venting access and contribute to this short life. Anyone interested in this upgrade, just ask me and I will help you.





Actual test:

Insert the stator connector back into the R/R connector.

We have already tested the three yellow wires in this connector, and at this point I’m assuming they have tested well, otherwise the following tests will not be useful.





Battery Test:

Switch your meter to D/C voltage (12VDC)

Method 1:

Place the black meter probe on the battery negative terminal, while placing the meter red probe on the R/R connector’s “Red” wire. This red wire is the 12vdc output wire and is what charges the battery.





Method 2:

Or; you can place the meters red probe on the batteries positive terminal, and the meters black probe on a chassis ground point.

The reason you want to test the battery in one of these two manners, is that there will be a higher “resistance” for the meter to register the voltage.

This will result in a more accurate reading VS. Placing both probes straight on the battery terminals

Your battery with one of these test connections should read within a range of approximately 12.3 - 12.9 Volt/DC this is a minimum range it should read for the battery with all switches and engine off.

Note:

Older batteries will likely test at the low end of this scale, where as a newer battery might test at the higher end of this scale.

Any less and the battery is not able to hold a full charge and should be "load" tested as well.



Test 5:

Rectifier/Regulator testing (R/R)



Note: Engine running

Note: Your charging system does not produce charge power until a minimum RPM of 1500 to 2K, and will produce its maximum output between 3000 and 5K. So just idling, it will not give a “Charge” reading.



Actual Test:

Place the red meter probe into the R/R connector for the” Red” wire with engine running, and the black meter probe on a chassis ground. Now rev the engine to 3000k RPM, and hold it there, you should show a voltage range of 13.2 - 14.8 Volts D/C.

If you get a reading below the specified 13.2 VDC, then you are not receiving any charge to the battery, and the R/R will be bad

Also; if you have a reading above the specified 14.8 VDC, Then the R/R is bad.

Note: If you have a voltage reading above the specified max of 14.8, then run this test also, leaving the meter probes where they are, switch the meter back to A/C volts (100v or less setting)

And if you have any A/C volts at all on this test shut the motorcycle down immediately!!

This will indicate the R/R is not rectifying the charge signal down to a 12V D/C, and has the potential to blow fuses, light bulbs and/or any electrical components attached to the system. This can also over “cook” the battery, and cause it to explode… this is a very dangerous condition.

And yes! The R/R will be bad.



Well I hope this has helped as any of you as possible, and at least give you an understanding of how to test your machines…



This was entirely written by me!

Thanks for reading,

Engine Collector,

AKA… ModMan/ Mechanic1978




NOTE:
some older bikes and or newer scooters used a
"12v direct output charging circuit", and this will be the only ones that will not apply to these tests. Please refer to your bikes service manual to determing which system yours has.
 

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Registered
Joined
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7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It does sound like you aren't getting the battery charged while riding, however, it takes about a 20 mile ride to recharge the battery from just one start. You need to do some diagnostics to determine. First, make certain all connections are clean and tight. Then with a multimeter, check the voltage at the battery while engine is running. If less than 13 volts then chances are good, either you got a bad regulator or stator. Just because you added a new battery and regulator, either could be bad from the beginning. But a poor ground can cause issues as well. So start there first. The following is from another site but might be just what you need here. I don't know if yours is single phase or 3 phase though so there is that.

Testing a 3 Phase alternator / Stator

Engine and key off static test....


There are A/C output and 12v DC direct output types; this article will focus on the A/C type.



Actual Test:

There are either 3 wire, or two wire systems, and the tests will be the same for both. (set of white or set of yellow wires)

You will need a multi meter for the following test/s.

Switch your meter to a low Ohms setting, a 200 or less setting preferably, but a 2k setting will work. “Resistance” or “Ohms”


Test 1:

Disconnect the stator harness from the rectifier/regulator, the three yellow wires; you want to test each one individually to ground. Place the Red meter probe in a yellow wire cavity, black meter probe to a chassis ground. Test each wire (3 tests)


This should be an open circuit with an “infinity or OL” reading on meter.

Acceptable Infinity readings “can” be (00000000, OL, -----------, 11111111111, or any of these and flashing.

This will indicate they are functional and considered as GOOD.



If you get an actual numerical reading there is a short to ground, and that coil will be considered as BAD. All 3 coils are connected, and one bad one will short the rest in succession. That’s why you test all 3, this lets you know if one is bad, or two, or 3 etc…

If one is bad, replace it!







Test 2:

All three of the yellow wires, when testing from yellow to yellow and so on till you have checked each combination of the three should test… 0.2 - 0.5 ohms “roughly”, and be no more than 0.1 difference from each of the three readings.

Example:

(wire 1 to wire 2 “reading one” - wire 2 to wire 3 “reading two” - wire 3 to wire 1 “reading three”)

These three readings are the ones you compare, and should not differ any more than 0.1 Ohms from each other.

Any abnormal variation in readings or higher resistance numbers will indicate a weak coil and will not produce a full charge, and should be replaced

There is typically 3 coils (3 wires), but can also contain 2 coils (2 wires).




Test 3:

Engine on dynamic output test


Switch your multi-meter to A/C mode (voltage).

Test the voltage between the terminals of the stator coil (yellow wire to yellow wire)

3 tests (3 wire combinations), each wire combination should read same voltage at 3,000 rpm. You should get a reading of anywhere between 20 and 60 volts A/C.

Any voltage reading below 40 volts A/C will indicate a weak magnetic rotor, and will not charge under full power loads (lights, gauges, accessories). Also, whatever voltage reading you get isn’t as important Unless it’s less than 20VAC — at 3,000 rpm, this would indicate a burnt coil/s and should be replaced.

The more important thing is that there is a voltage reading on all terminals and they’re all pretty similar in the readings, with no more than 1.0 Volt variance. Any singular reading with a no voltage reading or vary more than 1.0v between the three readings will be faulty, and is bad.

An A/C motorcycle alternator will need a minimum power output of 20VAC, to "minimally" power the bike but will have a hard time charging the battery, and will not power any accessories, such as lights, phone chargers, flasher systems etc..





Test 4:

Note: The abbreviation “R/R” will be used as short hand for the Rectifier/Regulator.

The R/R is responsible for taking the A/C voltage and rectifying it to a D/C voltage, and then regulates it so the power produced does not over charge the battery.

An R/R will take the non used voltage and “burn” it to ground (waste). This burn will produce heat, and is the most common reason for the R/R to fail, it literally burns up from not being able to dissipate the heat it generates (waste) fast enough.

You can upgrade and expand on its ability to dissipate the heat to extend the life, by making sure it has a flat metal surface to mount to the frame with so this grounding will have a larger “surface area” to accept and dissipate the heat faster, or a computer CPU heat sink bolted to the back side, or even relocated in a place with better air flow. It has been debated by some, but OEM locations very seldom have adequate venting access and contribute to this short life. Anyone interested in this upgrade, just ask me and I will help you.





Actual test:

Insert the stator connector back into the R/R connector.

We have already tested the three yellow wires in this connector, and at this point I’m assuming they have tested well, otherwise the following tests will not be useful.





Battery Test:

Switch your meter to D/C voltage (12VDC)

Method 1:

Place the black meter probe on the battery negative terminal, while placing the meter red probe on the R/R connector’s “Red” wire. This red wire is the 12vdc output wire and is what charges the battery.





Method 2:

Or; you can place the meters red probe on the batteries positive terminal, and the meters black probe on a chassis ground point.

The reason you want to test the battery in one of these two manners, is that there will be a higher “resistance” for the meter to register the voltage.

This will result in a more accurate reading VS. Placing both probes straight on the battery terminals

Your battery with one of these test connections should read within a range of approximately 12.3 - 12.9 Volt/DC this is a minimum range it should read for the battery with all switches and engine off.

Note:

Older batteries will likely test at the low end of this scale, where as a newer battery might test at the higher end of this scale.

Any less and the battery is not able to hold a full charge and should be "load" tested as well.



Test 5:

Rectifier/Regulator testing (R/R)



Note: Engine running

Note: Your charging system does not produce charge power until a minimum RPM of 1500 to 2K, and will produce its maximum output between 3000 and 5K. So just idling, it will not give a “Charge” reading.



Actual Test:

Place the red meter probe into the R/R connector for the” Red” wire with engine running, and the black meter probe on a chassis ground. Now rev the engine to 3000k RPM, and hold it there, you should show a voltage range of 13.2 - 14.8 Volts D/C.

If you get a reading below the specified 13.2 VDC, then you are not receiving any charge to the battery, and the R/R will be bad

Also; if you have a reading above the specified 14.8 VDC, Then the R/R is bad.

Note: If you have a voltage reading above the specified max of 14.8, then run this test also, leaving the meter probes where they are, switch the meter back to A/C volts (100v or less setting)

And if you have any A/C volts at all on this test shut the motorcycle down immediately!!

This will indicate the R/R is not rectifying the charge signal down to a 12V D/C, and has the potential to blow fuses, light bulbs and/or any electrical components attached to the system. This can also over “cook” the battery, and cause it to explode… this is a very dangerous condition.

And yes! The R/R will be bad.



Well I hope this has helped as any of you as possible, and at least give you an understanding of how to test your machines…



This was entirely written by me!

Thanks for reading,

Engine Collector,

AKA… ModMan/ Mechanic1978




NOTE:
some older bikes and or newer scooters used a
"12v direct output charging circuit", and this will be the only ones that will not apply to these tests. Please refer to your bikes service manual to determing which system yours has.

Hey thanks for all that info! I'm fairly new to all of this so this could possibly be the "gold mine" answer, so thank you very kindly for taking your time and replying!! I'll check my grounds and my voltage with a meter, I'm sure my father has one kicking around. I'll be back with an update!
 

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Registered
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It does sound like you aren't getting the battery charged while riding, however, it takes about a 20 mile ride to recharge the battery from just one start. You need to do some diagnostics to determine. First, make certain all connections are clean and tight. Then with a multimeter, check the voltage at the battery while engine is running. If less than 13 volts then chances are good, either you got a bad regulator or stator. Just because you added a new battery and regulator, either could be bad from the beginning. But a poor ground can cause issues as well. So start there first. The following is from another site but might be just what you need here. I don't know if yours is single phase or 3 phase though so there is that.

Testing a 3 Phase alternator / Stator

Engine and key off static test....


There are A/C output and 12v DC direct output types; this article will focus on the A/C type.



Actual Test:

There are either 3 wire, or two wire systems, and the tests will be the same for both. (set of white or set of yellow wires)

You will need a multi meter for the following test/s.

Switch your meter to a low Ohms setting, a 200 or less setting preferably, but a 2k setting will work. “Resistance” or “Ohms”


Test 1:

Disconnect the stator harness from the rectifier/regulator, the three yellow wires; you want to test each one individually to ground. Place the Red meter probe in a yellow wire cavity, black meter probe to a chassis ground. Test each wire (3 tests)


This should be an open circuit with an “infinity or OL” reading on meter.

Acceptable Infinity readings “can” be (00000000, OL, -----------, 11111111111, or any of these and flashing.

This will indicate they are functional and considered as GOOD.



If you get an actual numerical reading there is a short to ground, and that coil will be considered as BAD. All 3 coils are connected, and one bad one will short the rest in succession. That’s why you test all 3, this lets you know if one is bad, or two, or 3 etc…

If one is bad, replace it!







Test 2:

All three of the yellow wires, when testing from yellow to yellow and so on till you have checked each combination of the three should test… 0.2 - 0.5 ohms “roughly”, and be no more than 0.1 difference from each of the three readings.

Example:

(wire 1 to wire 2 “reading one” - wire 2 to wire 3 “reading two” - wire 3 to wire 1 “reading three”)

These three readings are the ones you compare, and should not differ any more than 0.1 Ohms from each other.

Any abnormal variation in readings or higher resistance numbers will indicate a weak coil and will not produce a full charge, and should be replaced

There is typically 3 coils (3 wires), but can also contain 2 coils (2 wires).




Test 3:

Engine on dynamic output test


Switch your multi-meter to A/C mode (voltage).

Test the voltage between the terminals of the stator coil (yellow wire to yellow wire)

3 tests (3 wire combinations), each wire combination should read same voltage at 3,000 rpm. You should get a reading of anywhere between 20 and 60 volts A/C.

Any voltage reading below 40 volts A/C will indicate a weak magnetic rotor, and will not charge under full power loads (lights, gauges, accessories). Also, whatever voltage reading you get isn’t as important Unless it’s less than 20VAC — at 3,000 rpm, this would indicate a burnt coil/s and should be replaced.

The more important thing is that there is a voltage reading on all terminals and they’re all pretty similar in the readings, with no more than 1.0 Volt variance. Any singular reading with a no voltage reading or vary more than 1.0v between the three readings will be faulty, and is bad.

An A/C motorcycle alternator will need a minimum power output of 20VAC, to "minimally" power the bike but will have a hard time charging the battery, and will not power any accessories, such as lights, phone chargers, flasher systems etc..





Test 4:

Note: The abbreviation “R/R” will be used as short hand for the Rectifier/Regulator.

The R/R is responsible for taking the A/C voltage and rectifying it to a D/C voltage, and then regulates it so the power produced does not over charge the battery.

An R/R will take the non used voltage and “burn” it to ground (waste). This burn will produce heat, and is the most common reason for the R/R to fail, it literally burns up from not being able to dissipate the heat it generates (waste) fast enough.

You can upgrade and expand on its ability to dissipate the heat to extend the life, by making sure it has a flat metal surface to mount to the frame with so this grounding will have a larger “surface area” to accept and dissipate the heat faster, or a computer CPU heat sink bolted to the back side, or even relocated in a place with better air flow. It has been debated by some, but OEM locations very seldom have adequate venting access and contribute to this short life. Anyone interested in this upgrade, just ask me and I will help you.





Actual test:

Insert the stator connector back into the R/R connector.

We have already tested the three yellow wires in this connector, and at this point I’m assuming they have tested well, otherwise the following tests will not be useful.





Battery Test:

Switch your meter to D/C voltage (12VDC)

Method 1:

Place the black meter probe on the battery negative terminal, while placing the meter red probe on the R/R connector’s “Red” wire. This red wire is the 12vdc output wire and is what charges the battery.





Method 2:

Or; you can place the meters red probe on the batteries positive terminal, and the meters black probe on a chassis ground point.

The reason you want to test the battery in one of these two manners, is that there will be a higher “resistance” for the meter to register the voltage.

This will result in a more accurate reading VS. Placing both probes straight on the battery terminals

Your battery with one of these test connections should read within a range of approximately 12.3 - 12.9 Volt/DC this is a minimum range it should read for the battery with all switches and engine off.

Note:

Older batteries will likely test at the low end of this scale, where as a newer battery might test at the higher end of this scale.

Any less and the battery is not able to hold a full charge and should be "load" tested as well.



Test 5:

Rectifier/Regulator testing (R/R)



Note: Engine running

Note: Your charging system does not produce charge power until a minimum RPM of 1500 to 2K, and will produce its maximum output between 3000 and 5K. So just idling, it will not give a “Charge” reading.



Actual Test:

Place the red meter probe into the R/R connector for the” Red” wire with engine running, and the black meter probe on a chassis ground. Now rev the engine to 3000k RPM, and hold it there, you should show a voltage range of 13.2 - 14.8 Volts D/C.

If you get a reading below the specified 13.2 VDC, then you are not receiving any charge to the battery, and the R/R will be bad

Also; if you have a reading above the specified 14.8 VDC, Then the R/R is bad.

Note: If you have a voltage reading above the specified max of 14.8, then run this test also, leaving the meter probes where they are, switch the meter back to A/C volts (100v or less setting)

And if you have any A/C volts at all on this test shut the motorcycle down immediately!!

This will indicate the R/R is not rectifying the charge signal down to a 12V D/C, and has the potential to blow fuses, light bulbs and/or any electrical components attached to the system. This can also over “cook” the battery, and cause it to explode… this is a very dangerous condition.

And yes! The R/R will be bad.



Well I hope this has helped as any of you as possible, and at least give you an understanding of how to test your machines…



This was entirely written by me!

Thanks for reading,

Engine Collector,

AKA… ModMan/ Mechanic1978




NOTE:
some older bikes and or newer scooters used a
"12v direct output charging circuit", and this will be the only ones that will not apply to these tests. Please refer to your bikes service manual to determing which system yours has.

Found the problem. It was the plug between the voltage regulator and the wiring harness. The ground burnt completely so I removed the ground wires completely and hardwired them for the time being until I can order a new set of plugs. I believe the plugs aren't worth de-pinning because of how badly melted the one slot is.

Thanks again for all the valuable info up there!
 

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American Legion Rider
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Great. Glad you found it so quickly. Some times these can be a bear to find.
 
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