[roninmd]

While my Diablo Black EX650r is vulnerable to radar, it seems mostly lidar proof.

I was playing with my laser pointer the other day and noticed that the black coating doesn't reflect light. If I hit the headlights with the laser, yes there will be reflection. Then I tried it with the engine on and headlights lighting on both sides. To my surprise.... no reflectivity. Yes I know LIDAR is Infrared. Well guess what.. these halogens spit out a flood of infrared enough to drown out a return pulse.

What are your thoughts?

 

[tagged99]

 

[roninmd]

Props to tagged99. In any case, wouldn't an inverse tachyon beam cause the ex650r to travel forward in time?

 

[Mr Skidmarks]

From my understanding LIDAR gives speed, distance, and direction of travel. It is EXTREMELY accurate and not dependent on the color of the surface its bouncing off of as it isn't using a light spectrum that we see. The "cone" of light a LIDAR emits is about 3 feet in diameter at roughly 1000 feet, so if a cop busts you with one, your chances of arguing out of it are a lot slimmer than if he had used radar.

 

[JustAJ]

While my Diablo Black EX650r is vulnerable to radar, it seems mostly lidar proof.

I was playing with my laser pointer the other day and noticed that the black coating doesn't reflect light. If I hit the headlights with the laser, yes there will be reflection. Then I tried it with the engine on and headlights lighting on both sides. To my surprise.... no reflectivity. Yes I know LIDAR is Infrared. Well guess what.. these halogens spit out a flood of infrared enough to drown out a return pulse.

What are your thoughts?

Unless your eyes can see in the same spectrum as LIDAR, then I say that your conclusions are flawed. Post this in the "Ask A Cop" section of the police board.

 

[topgunz1]

run past your local speed trap and check it, be sure to post your documentation of the ensuing conversation with your local patrol, it will be in writing with your name and autograph on it right by the court date.

 

[roninmd]

I've done it.

They don't even bother clocking me when I'm in a crowd. What's up with that?

Anyway, carbon absorbs IR.

Carbon fiber your bikes and don't bother washing the headlights guys!!!

What get's me is why there are so many naysayers in this forum. What's the problem with anti-surveillance?

 

[Mr Skidmarks]

They don't even bother clocking me when I'm in a crowd. What's up with that?

Anyway, carbon absorbs IR.

Carbon fiber your bikes and don't bother washing the headlights guys!!!

What get's me is why there are so many naysayers in this forum. What's the problem with anti-surveillance?

Everything absorbs IR, so does your body. But IR works on a different resonance than the light you see. You need to do some research, carbon fiber will not help you at all with LIDAR.

 

[roninmd]

Unless your eyes can see in the same spectrum as LIDAR, then I say that your conclusions are flawed. Post this in the "Ask A Cop" section of the police board.

That was a useless answer. Resonance or not. I'm talking about LIDAR not RADAR.

I just saw a night cam recording testing IR reflectivity on a black car. The night cam uses IR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwFw_qJwBzM&feature=related

Instead of looking for reason's why something won't work.
Why don't you look for reasons why it will work.

Unless of course you are saying it on the statistical probability that it won't work so that you can say "I told you so."

That's what they told Christopher Columbus.

Anyway, yes the black on the 650r does absorb lidar.

Carbon does absorb IR. It was one of the test materials used in developing stealth tech and was shown to mitigate "resonance."

 

[roninmd]

From my understanding LIDAR gives speed, distance, and direction of travel. It is EXTREMELY accurate and not dependent on the color of the surface its bouncing off of as it isn't using a light spectrum that we see. The "cone" of light a LIDAR emits is about 3 feet in diameter at roughly 1000 feet, so if a cop busts you with one, your chances of arguing out of it are a lot slimmer than if he had used radar.

That's what they tell the cadets at cop academy.

They don't mention cosign or sweep error unless it's to use sweep error to make the victim... I mean subject appear to travel faster than they really are.

I don't intentionally speed, but I find it annoying that that there are cops out there busting their butt to ticket me when they should be fighting other types of real crime.

 

[rubix777]

I was just curious as to what wikipedia has to say. Some may argue that wikipedia is not a very accurate source, but I believe more do than do not

Copied and pasted from wikipedia:
==
==
LIDAR does not suffer from “sweep” error when the operator uses the equipment correctly and when the LIDAR unit is equipped with algorithms that are able to detect when this has occurred. A combination of signal strength monitoring, receive gate timing, target position prediction and pre-filtering of the received signal wavelength prevents this from occurring.

Should the beam illuminate sections of the vehicle with different reflectivity or the aspect of the vehicle changes during measurement that causes the received signal strength to be changed then the LIDAR unit will reject the measurement thereby producing speed readings of high integrity.

For LIDAR units to be used in law enforcement applications a rigorous approval procedure is usually completed before deployment. The use of many reflections and an averaging technique in the speed measurement process increase the integrity of the speed reading. Vehicles are usually equipped with a horizontally oriented registration plate that, when illuminated, causes a high integrity reflection to be returned to the LIDAR - despite the shape of the vehicle. In locations that do not require that a front or rear registration plate is fitted, headlamps and rear-reflectors provide almost ideal retro-reflective surfaces overcoming the reflections from uneven or non-compliant reflective surfaces thereby eliminating “sweep” error. It is these mechanisms which cause concern that LIDAR is somehow unreliable.

Most traffic LIDAR systems send out a stream of approximately 100 pulses over the span of three-tenths of a second. A "black box" proprietary statistical algorithm picks and chooses which progressively shorter reflections to retain from the pulses over the short fraction of a second.
==
==

Reference:
Under Military and law enforcement section

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR

 

[JustAJ]

That was a useless answer.

What your eyes can or cannot see is irrelevant to what a LIDAR recevier is going to do.

 

[rubix777]

While my Diablo Black EX650r is vulnerable to radar, it seems mostly lidar proof.

I was playing with my laser pointer the other day and noticed that the black coating doesn't reflect light. If I hit the headlights with the laser, yes there will be reflection. Then I tried it with the engine on and headlights lighting on both sides. To my surprise.... no reflectivity. Yes I know LIDAR is Infrared. Well guess what.. these halogens spit out a flood of infrared enough to drown out a return pulse.

What are your thoughts?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_spectrum
==
==
The visible spectrum is the portion of the electromagnetic spectrum that is visible to (can be detected by) the human eye. Electromagnetic radiation in this range of wavelengths is called visible light or simply light. A typical human eye will respond to wavelengths from about 390 to 750 nm. In terms of frequency, this corresponds to a band in the vicinity of 400–790 THz.
==
==

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR#Design
==
==
There are several major components to a LIDAR system:
Laser — 600-1000 nm lasers are most common for non-scientific applications. They are inexpensive but since they can be focused and easily absorbed by the eye the maximum power is limited by the need to make them eye-safe. Eye-safety is often a requirement for most applications.
Such as for your mini laser pointer.


A common alternative 1550 nm lasers are eye-safe at much higher power levels since this wavelength is not focused by the eye, but the detector technology is less advanced and so these wavelengths are generally used at longer ranges and lower accuracies. They are also used for military applications as 1550 nm is not visible in night vision goggles unlike the shorter 1000 nm infrared laser. Airborne topographic mapping lidars generally use 1064 nm diode pumped YAG lasers, while bathymetric systems generally use 532 nm frequency doubled diode pumped YAG lasers because 532 nm penetrates water with much less attenuation than does 1064 nm. Laser settings include the laser repetition rate (which controls the data collection speed). Pulse length is generally an attribute of the laser cavity length, the number of passes required through the gain material (YAG, YLF, etc.), and Q-switch speed. Better target resolution is achieved with shorter pulses, provided the LIDAR receiver detectors and electronics have sufficient bandwidth.
==
==

Therefore, they are most likely high power level and not focused (not visible)by the human eye.

The only thing you have proven is that your diablo black paint does not reflect the wavelength of the mini laser pointer you have very well.

If LIDAR used by law enforcement was as elementary as your retail laser pointer (used), then I guess I should be complaining about where the taxes I pay are going.

 

[JustAJ]

There is, of course, a very scientific way to test it. Find a traffic enforcement officer using LIDAR. DO a U-Turn and speed by him. If he doesn't chase you then you've got a stealth bike.

 

[rubix777]

There is, of course, a very scientific way to test it. Find a traffic enforcement officer using LIDAR. DO a U-Turn and speed by him. If he doesn't chase you then you've got a stealth bike.

Maybe even applying an anti-LIDAR diablo black sticker over the license plate would help too.

 

[roninmd]

Not using a laser pointer

I have the ZR4 laser shifter. I'm trying to decrease reflectivity. With both headlamps on, I don't believe the IR pulses will can see through the flood of IR coming from the headlamps.

The youtube video posted earlier was with a night cam using IR. IT wasn't through a human eye when the test was performed.

As for doing a real life test with a cop. I don't speed. I'm also getting a gps unit that tracks speed info. So in case the cop makes a mistake, I got proof that I wasn't speeding.

I was asking for help on how to strengthen lidar countermeasures...not information on how it can't be done.

 

[jnhuscg]

I have a Cobra 9 band RADAR/LIDAR detector. It's already paid for itself. Works like a charm. Don't use it on the bike though, only on the cage.. as far as your bike being LIDAR proof, I doubt it. those things are extremely accurate....that's why they use them. The only downside to them is that they CANNOT be used while the cop is moving (got out of a ticket that way once), or during heavy rain or fog (reflects off of particles). They are extremely accurate in the right conditions, but cops will try to get away with using them when they accuracy is down.

This info is from a buddy of mine (who is a FL state trooper). Hope it helps.

 

[rubix777]

I have the ZR4 laser shifter. I'm trying to decrease reflectivity. With both headlamps on, I don't believe the IR pulses will can see through the flood of IR coming from the headlamps.

The youtube video posted earlier was with a night cam using IR. IT wasn't through a human eye when the test was performed.

As for doing a real life test with a cop. I don't speed. I'm also getting a gps unit that tracks speed info. So in case the cop makes a mistake, I got proof that I wasn't speeding.

I was asking for help on how to strengthen lidar countermeasures...not information on how it can't be done.

You'll need a photometer (or someone that has access to a photometer) to measure what wavelength of light is coming from your headlamp. If you want to prove your case, I think you could start by proving that the wavelength of light coming from your headlight is the same (or is within the same range as)wavelength as that is used for the LIDAR unit the trooper is using.

However, I don't see why a lightbulb company would opt to have features (light emitted in the IR wavelength range) that a normal consumer would not need or take advantage of for normal use (ie street riding for the main purpose of illuminating the road, which requires that the light reflected be visible to the human eye). I'm not doubting that IR is also emitted from a headlamp, maybe there is.

 

[roninmd]

Light bulb companies don't opt to add IR as a feature. Infrared Light is a part of the natural spectrum that all incandescents, including halogen lamps, emit.

Because Halogen bulbs burn hotter, All light coming from it, including IR has more efficacy.

It's enough IR such that cops using lidar have more success when they aim thier lidar at the headlight that is not lit.

See the forest for the trees man.

 

[roninmd]

What your eyes can or cannot see is irrelevant to what a LIDAR recevier is going to do.

That answer was even more useless. You'll need to be a little more constructive.