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Discussion Starter #1
I have a mint 2007 Kawasaki 650R with 2,670 miles. I'm thinking of trading for a 2018 Ninja 400. My insurance would cost less, and I would get better fuel economy.
I'm not sure how much performance I would lose though. Thank you.
 

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I think it's an excellent idea. Except for the trading part. If you're not in that much of a hurry, selling it yourself is going to be a lot more economically worthwhile 99% of the time. Especially on an older model that might take some time to find the right buyer. I wrote an interesting article on the topic of used motorcycle sales, in case you're interested.

However, any reason to not go for the Ninja 650 instead? Differences in fuel economy between the 650 and the 400 are negligibly small, and the 650 is a tad bit more versatile. I think the 400 is the perfect beginners bike, but for someone experienced who only wants to have one bike, I don't think there is any compelling reason to not just go with the 650 for few occasions where more power is appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think it's an excellent idea. Except for the trading part. If you're not in that much of a hurry, selling it yourself is going to be a lot more economically worthwhile 99% of the time. Especially on an older model that might take some time to find the right buyer. I wrote an interesting article on the topic of used motorcycle sales, in case you're interested.

However, any reason to not go for the Ninja 650 instead? Differences in fuel economy between the 650 and the 400 are negligibly small, and the 650 is a tad bit more versatile. I think the 400 is the perfect beginners bike, but for someone experienced who only wants to have one bike, I don't think there is any compelling reason to not just go with the 650 for few occasions where more power is appreciated.
I've had three different 2007 650Rs in the past 11 years. I thought I might try a different model such as the 2018 Ninja 400. I heard the 2018 Ninja 650 only goes 200 kph top end, the same as the Ninja 400, but the 2018 Ninja 650 has good midrange?
 

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I sell some bikes, and trade some bikes. We pay sales tax on the difference between trade in and new bike so i factor that into the decision when considering trade or sell. Sometimes I buy because it is a deal and then sell afterward. That has sometimes left me with 8 bikes sitting the the shop which definitely puts more pressure on me to get something sold.

If you don't have a clear title trading is much easier, but I always have a clear title so that doesn't enter into my equation.

Sometimes it is because I don't want to deal with test riders on certain bikes.
 

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I've had three different 2007 650Rs in the past 11 years. I thought I might try a different model such as the 2018 Ninja 400. I heard the 2018 Ninja 650 only goes 200 kph top end, the same as the Ninja 400, but the 2018 Ninja 650 has good midrange?
Jaja, that's like wanting something different and then dumping your girlfriend to go out with her sister :swink:

I can definitely understand you wanting a change, but considering that the 400 an 650 are so similar that many parts are compatible, I can't help but wonder if something else might not excite you more? Though there certainly is something convenient in the familiarity of passing from one kawasaki to another.

I only ever saw about 130mph out of the 2016 Ninja 650, so 125-130mph sounds about right for the 2017. Because supposedly it lost some top end for some mid-range, allegedly. I'd imagine the Ninja 400 would be in the 115-125mph range, though it'll certainly take a few extra seconds to get there. All in all that's my biggest complaint about the new 400. It's so good that it really blurs the line between who's right for the 400 vs 650.
 

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All in all that's my biggest complaint about the new 400. It's so good that it really blurs the line between who's right for the 400 vs 650.
This is where you have to start comparing the details to determine which one is right for you and which one will require the lowest investment to set up for you.

Weight, seat height, rider triangle, suspension and what weight rider is the stock suspension set up for. Cost to own. Cost to insure. etc.
 

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This is where you have to start comparing the details to determine which one is right for you and which one will require the lowest investment to set up for you.

Weight, seat height, rider triangle, suspension and what weight rider is the stock suspension set up for. Cost to own. Cost to insure. etc.
The 400 really did impress me with how low they brought the weight. As did the 2017 N650 a few months before. The 2017 N650 is substantially lighter and more nimble than the previous generation. Considering that the N300 was already a bit too easily thrown around by highway wind, that might not even be a pro for the N400 (it's lighter than the N300). But to be honest, given that neither is a super sport bike, I don't think weight would be a a huge differentiating factor for most people. Maybe it might matter a bit for a short, light female, but not much more for the average rider.

The same goes for the rest. They're too close to be worth fussing over. I'd bet anyone that is happy with the N400 would be equally happy with the N650. And viceversa. Sure, the N400 might be a bit better for city, and the N650 for highways, but they'd both be fine anyway.

All in all, the most compelling reasons I'd have for going for the Ninja 400 is:
A. If I had never owned a bike before.
B. Or because it (FINALLLLYYYYY!!!) takes care of the cyclops-look with the new LED headlight.

Besides that, their both home-run bikes, in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The 400 really did impress me with how low they brought the weight. As did the 2017 N650 a few months before. The 2017 N650 is substantially lighter and more nimble than the previous generation. Considering that the N300 was already a bit too easily thrown around by highway wind, that might not even be a pro for the N400 (it's lighter than the N300). But to be honest, given that neither is a super sport bike, I don't think weight would be a a huge differentiating factor for most people. Maybe it might matter a bit for a short, light female, but not much more for the average rider.

The same goes for the rest. They're too close to be worth fussing over. I'd bet anyone that is happy with the N400 would be equally happy with the N650. And viceversa. Sure, the N400 might be a bit better for city, and the N650 for highways, but they'd both be fine anyway.

All in all, the most compelling reasons I'd have for going for the Ninja 400 is:
A. If I had never owned a bike before.
B. Or because it (FINALLLLYYYYY!!!) takes care of the cyclops-look with the new LED headlight.

Besides that, their both home-run bikes, in my opinion.
Do you notice the mid range of your 2017 Ninja 650 is better than your 2016? I think the Ninja 400 reminds me a 1977 Yamaha RD 400 I used to have. It was very light and quick and cheap to insure. I like the new Ninja 650 too. I don't want a super sport or a 3 cylinder either. That's why I've been sticking with the 650Rs I suppose.
 

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The 400 really did impress me with how low they brought the weight. As did the 2017 N650 a few months before. The 2017 N650 is substantially lighter and more nimble than the previous generation. Considering that the N300 was already a bit too easily thrown around by highway wind, that might not even be a pro for the N400 (it's lighter than the N300). But to be honest, given that neither is a super sport bike, I don't think weight would be a a huge differentiating factor for most people. Maybe it might matter a bit for a short, light female, but not much more for the average rider.

The same goes for the rest. They're too close to be worth fussing over. I'd bet anyone that is happy with the N400 would be equally happy with the N650. And viceversa. Sure, the N400 might be a bit better for city, and the N650 for highways, but they'd both be fine anyway.

All in all, the most compelling reasons I'd have for going for the Ninja 400 is:
A. If I had never owned a bike before.
B. Or because it (FINALLLLYYYYY!!!) takes care of the cyclops-look with the new LED headlight.

Besides that, their both home-run bikes, in my opinion.

Feeling the wind more and being thrown around by highway winds are mutually exclusive. Riding skill determines whether you are thrown around. Obviously a lighter bike is going to feel the wind more than a heavy bike but allowing the bike to move around under you while focusing on where you are going goes a long way in keeping the bike on the chosen line instead of it being blown around. I had a 250 Ninja and a 250 KLX and never had issues with wind on the highway. My FZ-07 is 400lbs wet and handles the highways as well as my 900 lb Road Glide.
 

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Feeling the wind more and being thrown around by highway winds are mutually exclusive. Riding skill determines whether you are thrown around. Obviously a lighter bike is going to feel the wind more than a heavy bike...
Let's not bother arguing over semantics. Saying that the bike "gets thrown around" is simply a casual figure of speech, and I would have been just as happy saying "feel the wind". Either way, the fact that you said "Obviously a lighter bike is going to feel the wind more" shows you agree with the gist of it.

Do you notice the mid range of your 2017 Ninja 650 is better than your 2016?
Personally, I think that, if anything, it's more quantitative than it is qualitative. As in, sure, it probably has a numerical improvement in midrange if you put both on a dyno, but it isn't so much that it will change how you ride. The same way that top speed may be just a few mph lower really doesn't change anything - the ticket is the same, be it 126 or 130mph. The real question is what difference there is between the 2018+ 400 and the 2017+ 650. My 2015+ N300 really lacked oomph above 80mph, which translated to less reserve power to put the bike where I want it at highway speeds. In general I'm still not sure if I consider the 400 a big N300 or a small N650. The 400 just seems like an odd, unnecessary size for me, to be honest. Not to say I wouldn't love it if I had it.
 

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Let's not bother arguing over semantics. Saying that the bike "gets thrown around" is simply a casual figure of speech, and I would have been just as happy saying "feel the wind". Either way, the fact that you said "Obviously a lighter bike is going to feel the wind more" shows you agree with the gist of it.
I have read posts over the years where the rider allowed themselves to get blown into the next lane and even oncoming lane because they weren't prepared. Happens more on fully faired bikes than naked bikes but it results from the rider not being light on the controls and not understanding heeling into the wind.
 

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WilliamD, did you ever get a 400? i myself sold a 650 and bought a new 400, it has less power but i have really enjoyed the new 400. soo much lighter than my 650, handles well for me, even on stock springs and shock. personally i am more than happy with the 400
 

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I have been riding a 2007 N650R for the last 11 years, and just test rode the new Ninjette. (I need to put a little money toward my Old Girl, and my wife suggested that it may be wiser to put that money toward a bike with ABS since we now live in a city full of clueless-wingnut distracted drivers.)

My initial impression is that the 400 engine provides enough performance to be satisfactory for how I ride, even having plenty of passing power at 75-80 mph. The transmission is smooth and quick. The Ninjette's suspension seems better than the stock suspension was on the Old Girl, but that's going back a few years in memory now since I upgraded the suspension to aftermarket many years ago. And my luggage all fits securely, so moving over would be somewhat easy. The size, light weight, and easily folded mirrors made it easy to maneuver in the developer-special two (really 1 1/2) car garage at the new place. I did not test the ABS system. ;)

The seat, however, is as stiff as a supersport's, and I do have some concerns about the very light weight of this bike on a 30+ mph windy day typical of North Dakota. But the seat is solvable if that becomes an issue. And having been visiting Wisconsin all my life, and having lived here for about two months now, I can honestly say that it must be extremely rare for this state to experience a windy day because I haven't seen it yet.

I can get Michelin Road 5 tires for the Ninjette, so I'm happy on that front. The Scottoiler should transfer easily as well. I'd likely get heated grips and a touring windshield, and transfer my garage door clicker, and my setup would be complete for commuting & touring.

This is tempting.
 
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