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H2: The question that needs asked...

14744 Views 44 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  remo
So there's all this excitement over H2 and H2R. And it should be, production supercharged motorcycles are rare. Although there have been plenty of production bikes with forced induction already, most have been turbo charged.

Consider the rumor on estimated price for the H2, ~$25k give or take a few thousand.

Would someone be better off buying a ZX-10R (or other supersports) and adding a turbo or supercharger and having about 20k in the bike vs. 25k for a H2 or maybe even competition for the H2R on the track for about 50% of the price? ? Has this been an oversight on Kawasaki's part of developing a bike with such a supposed premium price tag?

Frankly I like the H2. I would like it better if it had a full fairing. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to the ZX-10R and other liter bikes on the track. But if I were going to do anything, I'd probably lean more this way than buying an H2.

ZX-10R: $14,000
Turbo Kit: $4500 (250 hp, Velocity Racing Kawasaki ZX10r Turbo Kit 04-07 :: Motorcycle Parts :: McCoy Motorsports)
Insallation: $2000 (just guessing adding some padding in for tuning etc., DIY would reduce)
Total: $20,500, 25 more hp

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Vic, I think your 14 is an example....
Would a person be better off buying a 2004 zx10 and bumping its hp to 200 or buying a 2014 zx14.
Not really the same bike, but I'll take the suspension, engine and chassis designed for high hp, right from the start.
I dotn think our home brewed frame and suspension, and engine, will ever do as well as somehting purpose built.
Price? I think Bentley sells more cars at 200k than they would at 100k just for the "exclusive" value.
Great point, and worth considering....

Also, I bet the h2 is reliable, and you may not have that in a home built 300hp zx10? Your 14 would probably be ok at 300.
RC great points. These are all reasons I asked this question. I was hoping someone might have direct, first-hand experience in this area.

I agree reliability could be a factor. A person looking to do this would have to research and understand reliability as a factor for modifying a ZX-10R ( or other liter supersport) in such a manner.

I don't know the effects on reliability, frame, or suspension issues. I'd think the ZX-10R frame is engineered with this type of performance in mind. Or basically it's engineered with a significant safety factor (say built to withstand at least 50% additional stress than what's stated or stock).
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I think you are missing the point. It's not just about a bike with a supercharger slapped on it. Gazillion examples of that, with big numbers. It's more about every other component of the bike, and the sum of parts. I hope the resulting product is a heckuva lot more than just a supersport with a supercharger on it.
Point taken but I think the flip side is isn't that really all it is? So it's not using an aluminum perimeter frame, it's using a trellis frame. That's been done before.

It's not like it'll have anti-gravity drive or something.
Turbocharging a ZX-10 just makes it a turbocharged ZX-10 and does not raise it's blue book value and actually makes it harder to sell. The H2 or H2R will always be more valuable and if kept pristine, may be worth a butt-load of money in 20+ years.
Agreed on book values. But I don't know this argument holds too much water. I suppose this question is oriented towards riders buying the bike to ride it and use it. There would be no point in buying a ZX-10R, putting a turbo kit on it, and letting it sit hoping in 20 years it'll be worth more.

Could this be that special of a motorcycle that it will become a collector's item? Maybe, maybe not. It's a pretty complex equation that results in something really becoming significant and collectible that it actually gains value over time. I think anyone planning for the H2's book value to go up is kind of crazy, it'll drop just like every other bike or vehicle even if someone buys one trailers it home, and never starts it.
I dont think it will ever be worth serious money...in comparison to what it costs.

Few bikes made as collectables really come through.

Good collectable stuff is often not popular or collectable when new. This thing is so expensive, up front, it will always be treated like such, when the old kz900's we used up, this wont be.

Even Kawasaki's real elr, the s1....It sold originally for 10,999. The last mint one I saw sold for 100k. 20 of them made, and few made it out into circulation. I dont think an h2 will go for 600k in 20 years, will it?

Plus, look at whats high dollar, right now. Bikes with history behind them, and this has none.

What is the most collectable Japanese bike?
Exactly. 99% of what's marketed as "collectible" will never be so. Rarity can play a role, but most of it is prominence on making some kind of impact. IMO if you were trying to get something collectible motorcycle wise, buying one of the current electric bikes and keeping it pristine might be a better option than the H2. Then again maybe not. That's the thing about collectible, you never know until it really happens or are in a position to influence the market in some manner.
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the H2 will not be a production bike available at dealerships.

Is it worth $25K? At the level of exclusivity and performance ..relative bargain.. sold to the masses

The H2 appeals to me because it is an epic bike that Kawasaki has produced to showcase
You're points actually outline the further blunders Kawasaki has made regarding the H2. You're own statements are contradictory. How can something be both exclusive and for the masses? $25k is hardly in exclusive territory. Harleys cost $25k+ routinely. Does this make Harley's exclusive? Nope, exclusive territory would've been in the $75k - $100k range. But that's where Kaw screwed up on this bike. My gut says they intended the bike for production, but realized their customer base would not support it. It wasn't cheap enough to get their typical customer. 14Rs are a fantastic motorcycle but they don't sell at MSRP. H2 would have the same problems.

That's the problem, with their sale strategy the H2 showcases nothing at all! It won't even be in showrooms to draw people in. Without this being a production bike, people this might draw into a Kaw dealership won't have that opportunity to see this cutting edge or whatever motorcycle, then ride home on a 650R or some other bike because it's a Kawasaki and look what they can do. Nope, I guess we'll probably have to settle for posters and maybe some cardboard cut outs!? Maybe they'll even put a little speaker where the muffler is on the H2 cardboard cutout so we can hear the engine sounds!

This has turned out to be a bit of a joke. It's less powerful by quite a bit, and quite a bit heavier than was anticipated. It's more expensive than most people thought it would be (not me, I pretty much pegged it at $25k-30k). It's certainly not the track ripper everyone thought it would be, literally re-arranging the supersport with one rev of the supercharger spool.
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Saying something is obvious is sign of a very weak argument. It's meant to persuade based on your own ignorance. Or basically you're saying something is obvious based on your belief that it should be obvious to everyone. The fact is, obvious is only obvious to you.

If you're seriously resorting to some crappy youtube videos equating to in person experience, this just shows how deep your ignorance runs.
Wow! I'm sorry for my ignorance, I did not know we were arguing only stating our opinions. I enjoy a good conversation about motorcycles and hearing others opinions but I think I'll pass on continuing this discussion with you. Based on your posts on this site it looks to me that you are very insecure. Good luck with that. :notworthy
You forgot to say "...obviously you are very insecure."

It's not really about being secure or insecure. You sat there and typed that seeing some crappy youtube videos is the same thing as someone being excited to go to a dealer and see one of these machines in person. Yes, you actually tried to tell me this.

Here's the bottom line on showcasing

Who here is going to go to their local Kaw dealership because Kawasaki is building these bikes to order?

Who here would go to a Kaw dealership if they just got in an H2?
I'm going with option two
I honestly would've went to a dealer to see one. And I can honestly say I won't bother going to a dealer now.
I cannot wait to see some actual performance tests done with these two amazing new bikes.

If one more person tells me the H2R is going to go 250MPH stock I am going to scream...lol Be neat to see how fast it does go though.

It reminds me of the Dodge Tomahawk. They said it would do 400 mph. Same motor as the Viper, which did not crack 200 mph at the time, and somehow on a less aerodynamic vehicle the same power goes twice as fast? People are gullible.

Be nice to see what they actually do as far as lap times, 1/4 times, and top speeds.

I wish I had one of each :)
Ok ..I admit it curiosity got me on this one. Glad I read it, nice post TMR.

Someone posted a pic of a supposedly stock (unmodified in any way) H2 speedo at like 232 mph. Same people are reporting the claimed hp is far below actual. I don't believe either, at least the numbers they're claiming (like 240 hp). I have a hard time believing Kaw would break the gentleman's agreement on the speed limiter, but maybe they have a gentleman agreement for the gentlemen agreement?!

I do expect H2 will be the quickest production street bike in the 1/4, and probably all the way to top speed. I don't expect it to make 14R or Busa look horribly slow, but probably a couple tenths faster than the 14R in the quarter. All just guesses on my end.
The H2 is electronically limited to 186 mph like everything else. That is confirmed as I see it.

My understanding is the H2 will make 200 HP, and the H2R will make 300 HP.

I read an article that said the H2 was limited to 185 electronically, but that with it's gearing and max rpm it could go 209 mph. Thats fun to read, but not real life.
You will do your highest top speed when geared for the HP peak, not the max rpm's. Also the rear tire spins faster than road speed on these types of runs so it's not one to one.
At the end of the day no one knows yet really. The H2 is limited to 186 per the gentlemen's agreement. A stock unrestricted bike no one has actually tested yet.

I personally would be surprised if the H2 goes quicker than the Busa or the 14 in the 1/4. It sits higher, it has a shorter wheelbase, and has a more abrupt torque response down low, and I believe a bit shorter gearing. the 14 and the Bus do good at drag racing because they are low and long from the start with a good front weight bias. This bike does not have that. I would not be shocked to see that it was a bit slower in ET, but a littler better in MPH.

My real curiosity is what the H2R will do on the drag strip. I will be a bit surprised if about 10 teams did not order an H2R to drag race it. Imagine a stock motored bike that is lower and longer with 300 HP. You are deep in the 8's.

It will be fun to see what happens.
Interestingly and unfortunately those numbers come from someone who has purchased one (claimed...I do believe him). To correct myself, the pic he posted shows the top speed recall function (apparently part of the electronics package) indicating 357 kph, or 221 mph. Again he claims this was a stock, unmodified (in any way) H2. He follows any H2 development way more than I do, but I do think his views are a bit skewed at least in these exact claims.

As far as tech specs, H2 has .2" more ground clearance compared to 14R (5.1" vs. 4.9") and has 1" less wheelbase, 57.3" vs. 58.3" for the 14R. The difference in ground clearance I attribute to the 200/55, which is slightly taller than the 190/50 of a stock 14R. I've looked into the difference between 190/50 an 55 is about 3/8" overall height difference, 3/16" is about .2". For kicks and giggles, 10R's numbers are 5.3" and 56.1" with a 190/55 tire.

One small thing about weight
Generally I see people comparing a 14R as being 590 lbs compared to something like the H2 being 524 and supersports being mid 400s. Considering that most people can't think their way out of a paper bag, it's no surprise people miss significant points when it comes to comparing bike weights. Granted "stock vs stock" is one thing, those numbers are what they are. But then there's the significant points. In all the discussions of weight before, never recall anyone here factoring these in comparing a 14R's weight to other bikes.

- H2 and 10R have 4.5 US gallon capacity, 14R has 5.8. Considering gas weighs ~6 lbs/gallon, that's about 8 lbs.
- 14R ABS models weigh ~7 lbs more than non-ABS models (591 vs 584). All '14+ are ABS only
- 14R comes with dual exhaust which weighs over ~41.5 lbs total. The exhaust I replaced it with weighed ~18.5 lbs total. I think Brocks' titanium system weighs like 8 lbs. Granted a few lbs can probably be knocked off 10R and H2, and other supersports but it won't be nearly as significant as loosing an entire ~15 lb. slip-on.

Just factoring in these differences drops the weight of the fat pig 14R. My bike, which isn't ABS drops from a portly 584 lbs to a more muscular 553 lbs in a more "fair" comparison. All the sudden instead of "oh my derp 14's weigh 70 lbs more than a H2" a much more real-world figure is somewhere around 20-37 lbs more (with the same amount of fuel in, non-abs/abs).

Now there's some validity in saying the 14R's still superior torque output might actually have something for the H2 in terms of acceleration. Stock to stock, the H2 will be faster in the 1/4. That I will bank my reputation on. On the street, in the real world, where someone can pick up 1 to 2 tenths on a 14R pretty easily (20-40 lbs) that could very easily tie things up where I expect the H2 to fall into the 1/4 mile performance (I expect somewhere around 9.2-9.3 stock).
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Actually in roll-on test 14R is not the fastest bike by far. In defining a "roll-on" I mean acceleration from a point in a gear, usually performed in a higher gear iin a specific speed range (not downshifting). A 14 owner on another forum said he was pissed because his son's CBR1000 beat his 14 in roll-on every time and he thought the 14/R is supposed to be the fastest bike on the planet. Well, all it takes is a trip to a site that list roll-on performance and it's there in black and white the CBR is faster in the roll-on test they perform.

In outright acceleration a 14 should make pretty short work of a CBR 1000. It would even take a fairly significant mistake for a 14 owner to lose. But in a roll-on test, generally a 14 will lose to a CBR 1000 every time.
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