[NozzleNut]

A little background: I bought my bike used. It's a 2006 Ninja 650r with 3600 miles on it. I bought it with around 2400 miles about a month ago. The owner had it checked out before he sold it, oil change, inspection, always had the battery on a trickle charger while not using it.

About 2 weeks ago my FI light comes on randomly, then goes off. More recently my bike had issues with cold starts and sometimes would need to be rev'ed to start or try 3-5 times. This has happened 2-3 times. I went for a trip to Mt Rainer the other day and mid-410 my bike wouldn't start for 2-3 times (Click, click, click) and I thought it was a battery issue, on the way back the FI light stayed on and never went off with a little bit of headlight fluctuation.

Anyways, the FI light stayed on all yesterday as well. I decided to try the self-diagnosis and was told to take a wire (Bought one at home depot) "ground" it to the orange/black self diagnosis terminal to the negative terminal on the battery for 2 seconds (According to the service manual). I did that yesterday with no luck (it wouldn't display anything) so I took it to a stealership and they load tested my battery, said I was using the self diagnosis right but I should have them hook the laptop up (for $90), said thanks for checking the battery and left.

Since then the light went on, but went off and now it randomly comes on. The tech at the stealership said to check all wires make sure it's not grounding somehow from wear and tear for a false read, but since the bike had issues starting I am thinking something else.

No clue what to do here, has anyone used the self diagnosis terminal before or know a way to hook it up to a laptop to read the ECU like the stealership would do? I'm not paying $90 to have someone read a code for 2-3 minutes and charge me an hours work. I have a reader that plugs into my car and won't pay for "check engine" light diagnosis either. I'm mechanicly inclined and perfer to do all my own maintenance unless it's a big job or something that I may screw up.

 

[Mr Skidmarks]

Sounds like possibly a bad stator.

 

[NozzleNut]

Any ideas why the self diagnosis won't work?

What do they use to check the ECU with a laptop? I would rather spend the money to check it myself than pay over priced checks every time the light goes off.

 

[tp555]

Don't need a laptop.Hold the the wire to ground and watch the fi light blink and count them.Keep the wire on the ground terminal continuously .

 

[Kiwi]

Here's the explaination from my website. I would suggest you download the self diagnosois "how to" as well as it explains the sequence to enter diagnosis mode.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The loose single wire coloured orange/black is referred to in the Wiring Diagram as the Self Diagnosis Terminal and as the name implies forms part of the trouble shooting procedure for the Fuel Injection (FI) system. Briefly when this connector is grounded in a particular sequence the FI light flashes a fault code indicating the item at fault or in another mode a previous fault that is stored in the ECU memory.

The other mounted connector has four wires coloured Light Blue/Black, Black/Yellow, Brown/White and Light Green/White (six wires on ABS models). Kawasaki refers to this plug as the Self Diagnosis System Connector and although no indication of its purpose appears anywhere in either the Ninja 650R (ER-6F) or the ER-6N Service Manual it would appear that this connector is used in conjunction with a dealer tool called the Kawasaki Diagnostic System (KDS).

The KDS 3.0 (until 2007 KDS 2.0) is a software program run from a computer in conjunction with cables and a adapter which are connected to the bike via the Self Diagnosis System Connector. The program can be used by the dealer to do the following:

1. Display ECU and model information.

2. Perform system diagnostics.

3. Display, save, and print service data.

4. Actuate individual injectors and other actuators.

5. Display, save, and print real-time sensor values.

6. Display and print graphs (real-time sensor values).

7. Erase stored service data.

On ABS models KDS 3.0 can be used to diagnose ABS faults and clear stored data in the ABS ECU. The KDS 3.0 unit can be purchased through your dealer or online and the kit comprises:

KDS 3.0 Adapter – (P/N 57001-1648) – Cost approx US$1,040.00

KDS 3.0 Software CD-ROM – (P/N 57001-1650) – Cost approx US$65.00

Comm. Cable 8-pin – (P/N 57001-1649) – Cost approx US$55.00

Comm. Cable 4-pin – (P/N 57001-1688) – Cost approx US$55.00

USB Cable – (P/N C57001-0017) – Cost approx US$20.00

KDS 3.0 User Manual – (P/N 99929-0154-02) - Cost approx US$9.00

 

[NozzleNut]

Don't need a laptop.Hold the the wire to ground and watch the fi light blink and count them.Keep the wire on the ground terminal continuously .

I tried that, that's why I came here. When I grounded it, it didn't display anything even when the FI light was active. I'll see if I can try dealer mode #2.

Here's the explaination from my website. I would suggest you download the self diagnosois "how to" as well as it explains the sequence to enter diagnosis mode.

Downloaded the service manual from your site when I got the bike, has been a big help so far. Thanks.

The KDS didn't look to bad until this:

KDS 3.0 Adapter – (P/N 57001-1648) – Cost approx US$1,040.00

 

[CM183]

Can't remember off hand, but I'm pretty sure that "dealer mode 2" is the easier of the two to do yourself (don't have my manual with me to check). Just to warn you, the grounding for two seconds then breaking/connecting and grounding continuously procedure takes a fews tries to get right (at least it did for me). Reading the codes displayed is also tricky, but they will repeat over and over. A good thing to do is have a friend with you can write down the codes as you're reading them, so you aren't trying to hold the ground, read the blinking light, and write numbers so you know you have all the codes.
Also, these codes will only show problems that are involved with the FI system. So, if for example, your stator was going/gone bad it would not make the FI light come on.
Hopefully you're able to figure out what's wrong and it is something easy to fix like a loose connector.

 

[NozzleNut]

Can't remember off hand, but I'm pretty sure that "dealer mode 2" is the easier of the two to do yourself (don't have my manual with me to check). Just to warn you, the grounding for two seconds then breaking/connecting and grounding continuously procedure takes a fews tries to get right (at least it did for me). Reading the codes displayed is also tricky, but they will repeat over and over. A good thing to do is have a friend with you can write down the codes as you're reading them, so you aren't trying to hold the ground, read the blinking light, and write numbers so you know you have all the codes.
Also, these codes will only show problems that are involved with the FI system. So, if for example, your stator was going/gone bad it would not make the FI light come on.
Hopefully you're able to figure out what's wrong and it is something easy to fix like a loose connector.

Thanks, that's what I was going to do later, just been working insane hours.

The FI light comes on, so it's something the dealer mode will show.

 

[TwistedPower]

if the bike sat around a lot or got bad fuel i would suggest running some injector cleaner through it. My FI light would pop on occasionally and then turn off by itself or when I turned it off and back on.

Just an inexpensive thought to try out.

 

[NozzleNut]

I think it gave me error code 62 or 64.

Messed around, then it started blinking. I couldn't reproduce it. I couldn't enter dealer mode #2 either.

 

[TwistedPower]

pull the tank and make sure all the connectors are connected. If i am remembering correctly this code relates to a sensor on the air box. more then likely it is unplugged. if not there are ways to test the component.

 

[NozzleNut]

pull the tank and make sure all the connectors are connected. If i am remembering correctly this code relates to a sensor on the air box. more then likely it is unplugged. if not there are ways to test the component.

Thanks, FI light was on when I went riding today. I took off the seat and finally got it to dealer mode one. Gave me 2 long blips and 3 short. (Maybe 3/3?)

Which doesn't make sense, since the manual says: Oxygen sensor inactivation, wiring open or short (Europe Models)

 

[NozzleNut]

Thanks, FI light was on when I went riding today. I took off the seat and finally got it to dealer mode one. Gave me 2 long blips and 3 short. (Maybe 3/3?)

Which doesn't make sense, since the manual says: Oxygen sensor inactivation, wiring open or short (Europe Models)

Fan comes on when FI light does too. Sound familiar?

I need to get a better code so I can find out what the problem is.

 

[tp555]

Very easy to miss read the blips as short or long.

 

[NozzleNut]

Very easy to miss read the blips as short or long.

Possibly, one stays there longer than the other. 1 second vs .5 seconds. I just need to verify what the issue is. Seems if it gets real cold it has issues starting and the FI light comes on. I work the next few days, so when I get off I'll try again since I have to jet out early in the morning.

 

[Leg_of_Tape]

Fan comes on when FI light does too. Sound familiar?

I need to get a better code so I can find out what the problem is.

Completely agreed about getting a solid code(s); you're taking a stab in the dark without one and wasting your time trying to blindly troubleshoot. Perfect example: "Gave me 2 long blips and 3 short." This would indicate code 23, which isn't a code at all.

With the fan issue, are you talking about when the bike is running? Or does this happen while you're checking the codes? If the radiator fan is coming on and off consistently with the FI light while you're checking codes, this would indicate a blatant short. If you meant that this happens while the bike is running, can you elaborate a little bit more on environmental conditions? As in, does the FI light come on immediately when the bike is started? If so, does the fan also immediately start up and stay running? This would also indicate a short somewhere in the circuit, especially if when the FI light goes out, the fan also simultaneously cuts out. Electrical gremlins like this can be extremely frustrating, but are solvable since you have the schematics. I would try to isolate the problem as much as possible off the bike, and then get REALLY intimate with the schematics once you've nailed it down as best as you can

On an off-shoot, do you know the condition of the spark plugs? Difficulty starting, especially when the engine is cold, could be symptomatic of dirty or fouled plugs, although it wouldn't necessarily throw the FI light. Also, is the bike stock? What modifications have been made (that you are aware of) if it isn't? Even something seemingly as simple as LED accent lights could potentially cause a problem if the person who installed them did so incorrectly. Good luck, and let me know what you come up with once you get some time to really sit down with the bike and get solid evidence. I'm happy to assist, just need a good starting point!

 

[NozzleNut]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

It started about two months ago, the FI light would come on and then go off. I also had idle issues which I pinpointed to me changing the idle timer by mistake.

About a month ago I started seeing the FI light on more, then had troubles starting. It goes "chug chug chug chug" and sometimes when it starts it idles a bit then dies, or won't go into "cold start mode" and high-idle. I also notice the headlights dim a bit when starting and warming up, or when riding on a few occasions and increasing on throttle. This is not the case all the time, except when starting on occasion. When the FI light comes on when starting the bike, or when at a low idle where I can hear it I hear a buzz, that almost sounds like a pump or fan. Unfortunately when this happens I have to leave right away and don't have time to diagnose.

As far as the spark plugs, no. The previous owner put 2300 miles on it since 2006 and was very meticulous with maintenance and paid $400 every year to get a full check of everything. (Have the records). The mods that were done when I purchased it were a fender eliminator, extended mirrors and lowered handle bars. Everything was done by the stealership. I put on a new pipe, but that was before the problems started.

Sadly, whenever the issue occurs I either don't have time or I am on the road and when I pull over, it's gone. Sometimes it's on for long stretches of highway, or just goes in and out or doesn't appear at all. When I do have time to check it, it won't appear at all.

 

[Leg_of_Tape]

Definitely strange. Just because a dealership did the work, unfortunately that doesn't always mean everything was done right. The one and only time I took my bike in for maintenance (was leaving the country for work and wanted to ride when I got back), the asshats took forever to diagnose the problem I was having. When I got the bike back home, I had a funny feeling about something, so decided to check their work. As soon as I started to disassemble the bike, I saw their first error - they apparently couldn't figure out how to install my air filter properly, because it was jammed into the opening, with one corner FOLDED OVER, allowing a ton of unfiltered air into the intake. Now this alone was enough to p1ss me off, but it wasn't just any old air filter, it was my nice DNA performance filter. :FIREdevil That was just the start of a list of things I found that weren't quite right. From then on the only person I've ever trusted to touch any of my vehicles is me, plus I'm free of charge and will even buy myself a six pack or two to go through the trouble!

Anyway, back to you. It's definitely shaping up like a complex issue, but sounds entirely electrical. When you have the time, pull the codes from the ECU and we'll start from there. Oh - and check that air filter. Seriously. Might be blocked, you never know! :wtf:

 

[NozzleNut]

Anyway, back to you. It's definitely shaping up like a complex issue, but sounds entirely electrical. When you have the time, pull the codes from the ECU and we'll start from there. Oh - and check that air filter. Seriously. Might be blocked, you never know! :wtf:

Tomorrow, if the code pops up.

Hear the gas tank is a pain to take off. If I take it off, I want to be able to do everything at once. Power commander, pair valves, after market air filter and spark plugs.

Yeah, with my bike I plan on doing everything myself. Learned the hard cost of a stealership when I went to get a replacement screw for the fairings.... $8!


You bike has some nice work done to it. Do the paint yourself? Would love to give my bike a new paint job.

 

[Leg_of_Tape]

Gas tank's easy, but everything's relative depending on your mechanical apptitude. I'm a helicopter technician by trade, so working on the bike is like a toy lol. All it takes is about 2-5 minutes, a #2 Philips and flathead screwdriver, 10mm socket & ratchet and it's off. If you want to do your own work, the maintenance manual will be your best friend. Kiwi's got it on his site to download, if you haven't already.

Thanks for the compliment! Other than the paint (on the bodywork, the frame/ suspension I did in my back yard), I did everything else myself. Painting is something I can do, but avoid like the plague if at all possible. I just don't have a good setup to do it properly. I got my bodywork from Gary, and he painted it for me before he shipped it off. Turned out great

About the code - unless you manually clear them, the ecu will store all codes indefinitely, even if the battery is disconnected. The FI light being on isn't the only time you can read a thrown code, so don't worry if it's on or not.