[Camride]

I'll start off by saying that I've done a ton of work on cars, but very little on motorcycles. With all the bikes I've owned I've never had to do much more than change the oil, lube the chain and maybe clean a carb. So for a bike I'm a maintenance noob.

Anyway, I have a new to me 2004 Z1000 with ~15k miles. When I first take off if I engage the clutch quickly it almost sounds like rocks rolling around, but goes away after a few seconds and doesn't happen on any subsequent upshifts, just engaging 1st. The clutch doesn't slip (though I haven't gotten it over 10k rpm yet, the Z has way more power than my last bike), but I'm wondering if something is wrong with it. I haven't pulled the cover off to check, mostly because I'm not exactly sure what to look for (besides something broken). I'm also wondering if I need a clutch where do I get a replacement kit? I looked on a couple of parts stores online and it seems like they just have a ton of individual parts.

 

[lmj301]

i am not a clutch master, but is sounds like the basket has notches in it from hard use. drain the oil, pull the cover. the basket that the clutch and shims are in should be smooth. if there are little notches then time to get a new one.

i could easily be wrong though.

 

[Camride]

Ok, just took everything apart and I see nothing amiss. Also, clutch looks recently replaced and is in very good condition, no notches in the basket.

One thing I'm not sure about (it's not mentioned in the clutch thread at the top) is there are two metal bands that were at the very bottom of the basket. Thin pieces that basically fit right around the middle portion but have no gears, so they're basically free floating. They're making a groove in the last metal place (non-friction piece) and I'm wondering if that is the issue? One piece (the one at the very bottom) is flat, the other is slightly curved. Do these pieces need to be in there? I could see them making the noise as they have nothing anchoring them to anything, they may also be thick enough to prevent proper clutch pressure...

 

[lmj301]

i don't know. maybe this will help.

http://www.riderforums.com/showthread.php?t=58022&highlight=basket

 

[Camride]

Yeah, that's what I was looking at and no mention of the metal bands...

Well I'm adventurous and put it back together without the bands. Didn't make a difference, the only thing it did was make it feel like the clutch engages later in the throw, so I'll probably put them back in. I did ride around the neighborhood with no helmet and it actually sounds like the noise might be coming from the chain? I cleaned, lubed and tightened it right when I got the bike, maybe it's too tight? I can move it up and down about an inch, which is what I remember doing on my last bike.

I guess I'll have to mess around with the chain later and see if that is the culprit. I'm confident the clutch is fine. The bike did sit for over a year and the chain was pretty gunky, so maybe it needs to be replaced.

 

[Black Sheep]

I willing to bet it's your chain... I've heard the same sound on mine and a really good cleaning/lube took care of it.

 

[Timmymoto]

I willing to bet it's your chain... I've heard the same sound on mine and a really good cleaning/lube took care of it.

I agree with Blacksheep 100%. Sounds like your chain/sprockets are worn. Cleaning will quieten it down for a little while, but I would check the countershaft sprocket to see if it's got worn teeth. A worn chain and sprockets will make some crazy sounds and make you think something is really bad wrong with your bike.

 

[Camride]

I'll have to give it another once over. I did do it pretty quickly as I was trying to get it done before I went somewhere. I guess I'll run through it again and see if that helps.

 

[Timmymoto]

The only reason I say it's the chain/sprockets is my 2003 Z did the EXACT same thing and I thought I was having transmission problems...... but when I cleaned and lubed the chain it would quit for a short while. I replace the chain and sprockets and it went away completely. Now it's as smooth as new. I did manage to get about 25000 miles before replacement, but I'm a little anal about chain maintenance. When I removed the countershaft sprocket the teeth were wore down a little and looked like they had a little "hook" to them, if that makes sense.

 

[Camride]

The only reason I say it's the chain/sprockets is my 2003 Z did the EXACT same thing and I thought I was having transmission problems...... but when I cleaned and lubed the chain it would quit for a short while. I replace the chain and sprockets and it went away completely. Now it's as smooth as new. I did manage to get about 25000 miles before replacement, but I'm a little anal about chain maintenance. When I removed the countershaft sprocket the teeth were wore down a little and looked like they had a little "hook" to them, if that makes sense.

Thanks for the info. I know the previous owner rode the bike pretty hard (not abused, but definitely ridden like it was meant to) so that may be the case (has just under 16k miles). I'll clean it up tomorrow and see if that helps. If not I'll look at getting a replacement.

Is there any use doing a +1 or anything? I just figure if I'm going to get new sprokets maybe I should upgrade? Isn't it basically the equivalent of doing a gear change on a car?

BTW, anyone know what those metal bands are for? I'm really curious why they're there. I can get pics if needed, but anyone that's done a clutch change should have seen them if they're supposed to be there.

 

[Timmymoto]

The metal bands transmit the power between the inner basket and outer basket. You need to put them back in. Notice the plates have tabs around the iside to grab the inned basket and the friction plates have tabs around the outside to grab the outer basket. Really simple design that gives more surface area to transmit the power.

 

[Camride]

The metal bands transmit the power between the inner basket and outer basket. You need to put them back in. Notice the plates have tabs around the iside to grab the inned basket and the friction plates have tabs around the outside to grab the outer basket. Really simple design that gives more surface area to transmit the power.

Ok, I looked up on Ron Ayers at the microfiche and it looks like they're the "spring friction plate" and "washer friction plate". I guess they are supposed to be there. Should have looked that up last night before I decided to put everything back in without them. :laugh:

 

[03kraz1000]

This happened to me around the same mileage . . . it's more than likely the fact that you need to clean your chain thoroughly and lube it very well. (http://www.tirox.ca/brush-and-cleaner.html) Also you need to check your chain slack, aggressive riding will stretch it faster than you think.

A little tip I heard, you always want to apply chain lube after you ride you bike for a while. This is beacause the chain has been heated up while riding which will allow the chain lube to soak in better. $.02

Safe Riding

 

[zxjosh]

The metal bands transmit the power between the inner basket and outer basket. You need to put them back in. Notice the plates have tabs around the iside to grab the inned basket and the friction plates have tabs around the outside to grab the outer basket. Really simple design that gives more surface area to transmit the power.

Not completely accurate. The clutch will still work without them as it's the friction plates that grab the steel plates which transmit the power from the crank to the transmission. The spring plates add to the clamping force so they grab better. Not all bikes have them.

 

[Timmymoto]

Not completely accurate. The clutch will still work without them as it's the friction plates that grab the steel plates which transmit the power from the crank to the transmission. The spring plates add to the clamping force so they grab better. Not all bikes have them.

My bad. I didn't realize he was talking about those when I posted. I went back and looked at what he was talking about.:doh

 

[Camride]

Meant to post back up but the forum was down last time I got on.

I lubed the **** out of the chain and that fixed it. I wasn't liberal enough in my coating the first time around (it was clean, just not lubricated well enough). Bike is running great and not making any funny sounds now.

 

[Timmymoto]

Good to hear.:headbang:

 

[BB-z1000]

I willing to bet it's your chain... I've heard the same sound on mine and a really good cleaning/lube took care of it.

I agree 100%!!!!

i got my bike back from the mechanic last week (service + new rear tire)

when taking off slowly and going from 1st to second i could hear scraping and a weird sound (like there was sand or little rocks) in my clutch!

pissed me off as it was fairly loud.

put the bike on the stand on weekend - oil is good / correct
i check chain - fark its loose, had maybe 40mm worth of play instead of 25mm.

adjusted - sound gone.

 

[Camride]

Yeah, I adjusted mine but it didn't make much difference in the noise. I didn't think about the fact that the bike didn't get ridden for over a year so the chain needed lube pretty badly. It's all good now, but I forgot to put the chain guard on for the first few miles and got lube all over my tail. Oh well.

 

[BB-z1000]

Yeah, I adjusted mine but it didn't make much difference in the noise. I didn't think about the fact that the bike didn't get ridden for over a year so the chain needed lube pretty badly. It's all good now, but I forgot to put the chain guard on for the first few miles and got lube all over my tail. Oh well.

good to hear you got it sorted mate,

Know what else would be good, did you take the front sprocket cover off? there's usually a whole load of gunk, oil, sand in there too. When its piled up that could make noise as the chain struggles through it.

Sounds like you should give your whole bike a lubing over, all your pivot points and also the (foot) clutch lever (greasing that up well can make shifting feel like slicing though butter with a hot knife)

I bought a little greasing tool recently with a 'syringe' like applicator, makes it easy to lube points up without taking your whole bike apart, even wheel bearings, clutch/ break lines.