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i did learn at msf that front does provide the greatest braking, but i guess i just brake early enough that i usually use the rear brake. .
new riders tend to overuse the rear brake; i think it's instinctive (dunno why, tho). i certainly used far too much rear brake when i got back into riding.

ergo, use more front brake and less rear brake. if the stop is urgent, use both at the same time.
 
new riders tend to overuse the rear brake; i think it's instinctive (dunno why, tho). i certainly used far too much rear brake when i got back into riding.

ergo, use more front brake and less rear brake. if the stop is urgent, use both at the same time.
I think it comes from biking. Mountain biking perhaps. I was the same way and was quickly retaught.

Be careful telling people to use the rear brake in an emergency. That brake is the most dangerous thing on a bike. Not bad on ours, really hard to lock up the back, but its a matter of habit that needs beaten out if they ever get on anything else. I'd rather low side than get thrown into the air in some random direction.

In a panic situation, someone JUST might accomplish locking our 650s back up. Don't let go in time - it'll buck you like a fly on a horses back.

MSF is split on the subject too. Two brakes ARE more efficient if applied properly, that is true. But in a panic situation does a rider have the presence of mind to control both brakes in a gradual manner? Ergo, do you teach MSF panic stops with both brakes or do you just have them focus on one? Whatever they were taught at the very beginning is what there gonna do no matter what they read on a forum.

I still remember my MSF class, "All 4 paws DOWN!" (Clutch in, front brake in, rear brake in, drop the gear). I remember going out week, after week, after week on that little parking lot when it was empty and speeding up to 30s and practicing the same thing till my rear came up.

Edit: on another reason I thought of could be because of the beginning practice sessions MSF does? They do that whole rear brake dragging/balancing act against a feathered clutch thing. It feels REALLY good when you first start getting it right and positive reinforcement cements that rear brake in. When traffic is light and I'm the 1st in line, I always try to see how long I can keep my feet on the pegs using that method at a light.
 
The rear on mine locks up pretty easily... I've done it numerous times while using both brakes. Especially in the rain (although I get the impression most people here don't ride in the rain).

How would it buck you off? I don't understand that part...
 
Yeah I've locked up my rear twice, both times it was in an emergency that I was fortunate to have not hit the car that cause the emergency. I really have to think hard about not slamming my foot down in an emergency. I think it has to do with driving a car and slamming on the brake with my foot. I don't know. Could be the bicycle thing too.

I'm sure someone will explain this better, but I think the real trouble comes when the rear starts to slide out, then if you regain traction you high-side. Is that right?
 
The rear on mine locks up pretty easily... I've done it numerous times while using both brakes. Especially in the rain (although I get the impression most people here don't ride in the rain).

How would it buck you off? I don't understand that part...
because if you lock it, manage to keep it up but wait too long to release it, when you do release it and the wheel hooks back up it can throw you. based on how far the rear slid and how fast its spinning.

the rear brake is easily the most dangerous thing on a sport bike. i didn't originate that statement either.


I'm sure someone will explain this better, but I think the real trouble comes when the rear starts to slide out, then if you regain traction you high-side. Is that right?

thats exactly it. the longer you let 'er go, the more chances it'll highside when it hooks back up. think about all that torque SUDDENLY hooking back up with traction. It wants to jump.
 
because if you lock it, manage to keep it up but wait too long to release it, when you do release it and the wheel hooks back up it can throw you. based on how far the rear slid and how fast its spinning.

the rear brake is easily the most dangerous thing on a sport bike. i didn't originate that statement either.





thats exactly it. the longer you let 'er go, the more chances it'll highside when it hooks back up. think about all that torque SUDDENLY hooking back up with traction. It wants to jump.
Oh I get what you mean. I generally only brake in a straight line so I didn't think you meant high siding.
 
sometime ago i had an incident on my cruiser. an ancient relic (the driver, not the car) pulled into the intersection in front of me on his red light. i hit both brakes full force, locked the rear wheel, but didn't release either brake, i skidded in a straight line, and my front tire barely kissed the car's front left fender. the driver blinked, stopped for amoment, blinked again, and continued his left turn without a single indicatin that we missed one another. i pulled across the intersection, parked my bike at the curb, and sat down for about ten minutes gathering myself.

had i release the rear brake after locking the rear tire i'd've been in deep kimchi.
 
sometime ago i had an incident on my cruiser. an ancient relic (the driver, not the car) pulled into the intersection in front of me on his red light. i hit both brakes full force, locked the rear wheel, but didn't release either brake, i skidded in a straight line, and my front tire barely kissed the car's front left fender. the driver blinked, stopped for amoment, blinked again, and continued his left turn without a single indicatin that we missed one another. i pulled across the intersection, parked my bike at the curb, and sat down for about ten minutes gathering myself.

had i release the rear brake after locking the rear tire i'd've been in deep kimchi.
thank you for sharing. its a fine art to know when you've crossed the point of no return.... but even most MSF coaches will say the exact same thing. If you do lock it that bad, its best to STAY ON IT.
 
thank you for sharing. its a fine art to know when you've crossed the point of no return.... but even most MSF coaches will say the exact same thing. If you do lock it that bad, its best to STAY ON IT.
+1 it's a skill to learn how to align a bike before releasing the rear wheel to prevent high sides... i learned it from my 10+ dirt years before street riding but I wouldn't dare try to teach it anyone, like my GF... i just tell her to ride the damn thing out
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
so i just swapped the the old with the new rear brake pads and now i'm not getting any contact between the pads and the disc. i pumped the pedal close to 1000 times, filled the reservoir and i'm not sure what the deal is. can i add fluid else where?
 
so i just swapped the the old with the new rear brake pads and now i'm not getting any contact between the pads and the disc. i pumped the pedal close to 1000 times, filled the reservoir and i'm not sure what the deal is. can i add fluid else where?
Did you bleed the brakes as well?
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Did you bleed the brakes as well?
they did bleed when i loosened the banjo bolt. first time i changed the pads on a bike, so i'm assuming that's the problem. where can i add more fluid?
 
they did bleed when i loosened the banjo bolt. first time i changed the pads on a bike, so i'm assuming that's the problem. where can i add more fluid?
Not sure what you meant by that... bleeding the brakes is a process of removing air from the lines by flowing fluid into it without letting more air in.

You can Google how to do it or I can just say how I did it...

1. Buy a bottle of brake fluid. If I remember correctly our bikes take DOT3.
2. Buy a length of plastic tubing. I think the diameter you want is 3/8" but I might be wrong.
3. Pour some brake fluid into a small container.
4. Put your tube on the bleeder nipple and the other end into your container making sure the end is submerged in the fluid to added in step (3). This is so that if something gets sucked backwards into the tube, it will be fluid.
5. Take the top off the reservoir. Place many rags under it to prevent damage to the paint if some spills.
6. While keeping an eye on the fluid level in the reservoir perform the following...
a) Pull the brake lever
b) Loosen the bleeder nut slightly
c) When you feel the lever about to reach it's maximum amount of movement, tighten the bleeder nut again. Try to avoid releasing the lever while the bleeder nut is open or you may suck air back into the line.
d) Refill the reservoir if necessary and repeat (a) to (d) until no more bubbles come out and only clean fluid is coming out (if you can see the difference). Do not let the reservoir run out of fluid or you will get air in the line and have to start from scratch.
e) Repeat (a) to (d) on other side (assuming you're doing the front).
f) Repeat (a) to (d) on the rear substituting the word "lever" for "pedal".

There are other ways to do it which require special equipment.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
Not sure what you meant by that... bleeding the brakes is a process of removing air from the lines by flowing fluid into it without letting more air in
i don't want to bleed the line. when i was removing the caliper i loosened the banjo bolt a little too much and fluid spilled out. i changed the pads and put it all back together and on the bike. now that it's on, i'm not getting contact between the pads and disc and that's what i'm trying to accomplish. i appreciate your help. i'm think i just need to add fluid, but the reservoir is full, so i wasn't sure if there was another place to add some. thanks in advance
 
Ok. I dunno what your problem is then. IMO if you opened any part of the system enough for fluid to come out you've possibly got air in the lines so I would bleed them if it was me. I'm unsure if air in the lines would cause your problem though.

Do the pads move at all when you squeeze the brakes? I would be surprised if your calipers were seized already.
 
i don't want to bleed the line. when i was removing the caliper i loosened the banjo bolt a little too much and fluid spilled out. i changed the pads and put it all back together and on the bike. now that it's on, i'm not getting contact between the pads and disc and that's what i'm trying to accomplish. i appreciate your help. i'm think i just need to add fluid, but the reservoir is full, so i wasn't sure if there was another place to add some. thanks in advance
STOP

You need to bleed the brakes properly. You should not have needed to loosen the banjo bolt to change the rear pads in the first place, but thats another issue.

Loosening the banjo bolt can allow air back into the line. Thus, you need to bleed.

If you're getting a "solid pedal" then the problem is elsewhere. Most likely you have an obstruction which is not allowing the fluid past the banjo bolt, but you'll find this out when you try to bleed it and nothing comes out.

Service Manuals are your friend next time.
 
Also you need to double check your work, or have someone with a bit more mechanical knowledge check it for you...
 
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