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I was poking around the internet looking for information on oil for the bike (my 3000 mile oil change is coming up). In the process, I came across an article that I thought I would share:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/7979/Motorcycle/Oil_comparo.html

I've used Mobil 1 in my truck using the following routine: I buy a six pack of oil and two filters. When I change the oil, I put on a new filter and fill with 5 quarts. After 2500 - 3000 miles, I change the filter and top off with the 6th quart. After 2500 - 3000 miles, back to the store for another six pack of oil and 2 filters. The truck has 112,000 miles, burns no oil and runs great.

I am leaning towards using Mobil 1 and factory filters (replacing all every 3000 miles) with the bike.

Any thoughts?

Craig
 
Z

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well...that was definitely a good article...I might consider using Mobil-1 Synthetic instead of the Silkolene Pro-4 Synthetic I currently use....ummm....sounds like its time for a test this spring....

Ride Safe!

Pete S.:D
 

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Hi Kuc45,

I have never heard of anyone changing the oil filter without changing the oil. That sounds like a waste of money.

On my ZR, I first changed the oil and filter at 500 miles then at 1500 miles. Both times I noticed metal shavings in the oil. I suspect that the shavings are trapped at the bottom of the case near the oil drain.

My plan is to change the oil and filter every 1000 miles. I use Kawasaki oil.

I use my ZR for sport only, not for transportation. So I don't put too many miles on it.

Andy
 

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FYI, the ZR-7 manual says to change the filter every other oil change. I change mine every oil change. As far as filters go..Kawasaki doesn't make the filters or the oil, they just endorse the products and mark the prices up. The choice is yours, and as long as you change oil/filters before/within/at the prescribed intervals, I'm sure things will be ok.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I got the oil/filter idea from an engineer at Mobil while I was working there. He described some testing they did where they put Mobil 1 in new cars and then ran them around the test track. Every 3,000 miles they would change the filters and top off the oil that was lost during the filter change. They never did a complete oil change until the engine was broken down to check the various parts for wear. He said they were able to put some really excessive milage on the oil before it would get to the point where it started to become a problem (in excess of 50,000 miles). It was his opinion that the filters were the limiting factor and if they could be made to handle it, cars could have their oil changes coincide with the major service intervals (30K, 60K, 90K miles). Using the process I described in the first post would gain the advantage of reduced engine wear that synthetics provide while reducing the cost of using synthetics and staying well within the capabilities of both the oil and filters.

I had always done the full change before that but started with the routine after talking to him and, like I said, have had pretty good results.
 

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Thanks for the article. It validated what I've always thought which is why I've always used Castrol GTX. I've also found it frustrating the amount the dealers charge for the filter cartridges. $8+ for an OEM cartridge! I'm going to try the Perf-form Filters, http://www.perf-form.com/filters/mall/j501.asp . I've read good reviews on them and at $4.35 the price is what I would expect for a cartidge filter. The only down side I see is there is a four filter minimum order. But since I put on about 400 miles each week I'll go through them in no time anyway.
 

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oil........... filters......and bits of metal

Hello Guys.........
I agree with changing oil and filter as regularly as manual says if not more frequently.....during my last oil change I made a small mod. to the oil drain plug...took it to a friend who has a lathe and had him drill a 10mm hole on the inside, then inserted a small magnet to catch any bits of metal floating around......the magnet was glued with araldite and also made a couple of dents on the side of the plug to prevent it coming loose and floating around.......not nice if it decides to attach itself to the crankshaft or something else....
 

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Grab one for me Doug. I'm good for it.

(PS- The slip-on is awesome, thanks a million!)

Thanks and have a Merry Christmas-

kelly
 

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OK, time to get on the soap box.

The issue with oil life isn't necessarily Viscosity. The oil is far from "worn out" when you change it. The thing is the acidity of the oil goes up as it gets older due to byproducts of the combustion process. Your oil not only needs phosphorous and such for wear but also calcium to neutralize the acids. This is why you change your oil before you lay up for the winter.

The other issue is your bike has a wet clutch, it is cooled by the oil in the crankcase. the newer automotive oils are (or can be) too slippery from the use of "friction modifiers" and cause your clutch to slip in some cases. These are required by the newer API standards for "fuel efficiency".
http://www.amsoil.com/products/aff.html
Scroll down to the part about friction modifiers. Here it mentions clutch compatibility and slip though it doesn't go into detail. Motorcycle Consumer News did a very in depth study on oils and their composition a while back covering all this.

If you scroll all the way down, the last number on the chart is TBN(total base number) This represents the ability of the oil to neutralize acid, the higher the better. If you go back and look at the Diesel engine oils you'll see this number is higher therefore prolonging the life of the oil in hte more acidic diesel process.

"In addition, the advanced 12 TBN additive package of AMSOIL Diesel Oil neutralizes acids and keeps the engine clean and in top-running condition."

Here's the home page http://www.amsoil.com/ Look under product info.


Most motorcycles call for SG rated oil. SJ is a newer standard and exceeds SG(or SH) But isnt necessarily better. The newer standard is for lower phosphoruos content due to the use of catalytic converters. Phosphorous is a wear agent and your bike doesn't have a cat/conv.

Basically, If your gonna use Wal Mart auto oil in your bike, your probably OK if you cange it a little more often. As long as your clutch doesn't slip any and you aren't cooking your oil in stop and go traffic in that air cooled motor that doesn't have a temp gauge. How do you know you aren't having thermal viscosity breakdown? My ZX12 is liquid cooled and it get HOT sitting at a light in the summer. I won't chance it. FWIW

For the record- I am an Amsoil dealer, simply so I can get it for dealer cost for myself and a few buddies who have seen the light, no profit. I don't have the spare time to be an oil salesman, but I have a bud that makes as much as $1200 a month during snowmobile season. I run it in my cars engines, auto tranny fluid, bikes, 2 stroke for the sleds, etc. The only problem with the stuff is it's sold & distributed like Avon or Amway for the most part.


AS far as just changing the filter, I wouldnt do it. Here is the clip on service life for Amsoil synthetic as an example.
"SERVICE LIFE

In diesel engines, fleet vehicle engines and industrial engines, such as stationary gasoline engines: drain oil at intervals up to three times as long as those recommended by the engine manufacturer as long as extended drains are supported by the findings of a used oil analysis program.

In personal cars and light trucks with non-turbocharged gasoline engines and marine craft: drain oil at intervals up to three times as long as those recommended by the engine manufacturer or at one-year intervals, whichever comes first.

In turbocharged gasoline engines: drain oil at intervals up to twice as long as engine manufacturers' recommended drain intervals or at one-year intervals, whichever comes first.

In high performance and racing engines: change oil based on the findings of oil analysis.

In motorcycles, ATVs and related gasoline engines: drain oil at engine manufacturer's recommended drain interval."

Now if they say run fleet vehicles up to 3 time the interval but motorcycles at recomendedintervals there has to be a reason.


One other thing- once your filter gets dirty enough there is a bypass valve that will open so your engine wont starve for oil, but then all the dirt gets through. Change the filter too, cheap insurance.


OK, I'll shut up now.

:z
 

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filters

I think someone said it here in another thread, but Fram makes a filter (CH6012) to fit the zr7. It's only $3 or $4 at wal-mart.
 

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Re: OK, time to get on the soap box.

>The issue with oil life isn't necessarily Viscosity. The oil is
>far from "worn out" when you change it. The thing is the acidity
>of the oil goes up as it gets older due to byproducts of the
>combustion process.

There are several different ways that an oil can "wear out", and in a motorcycle with a combined transmission, the viscosity will usually fall out of range before the TBN becomes significantly depleted.

Probably depends on the bike more than anything...

>The other issue is your bike has a wet clutch, it is cooled by the
>oil in the crankcase. the newer automotive oils are (or can be)
>too slippery from the use of "friction modifiers" and cause your
>clutch to slip in some cases. These are required by the newer
>API standards for "fuel efficiency".

ZDDP (where motor oils usually get their zinc and phosphorus) is a multi-purpose additive. It's an EP lubricant, a friction modifier, and it buffers acids (helps retain TBN).

Funny how the bike oil mfr's, when referring to car oil, crow about the presence of friction modifiers and the lack of ZDDP in the same breath.

The bottom line is "do your clutches slip?" If not, use the oil. Nobody is bothering to release the results of their JASO T903 friction coefficient testing. So we just hafta dump the oil in the bike and go for a ride.

>Most motorcycles call for SG rated oil. SJ is a newer standard
>and exceeds SG(or SH) But isnt necessarily better. The newer
>standard is for lower phosphoruos content due to the use
>of catalytic converters. Phosphorous is a wear agent and your
>bike doesn't have a cat/conv.

First, SJ sets a maximum for phosphorus that isn't very high. That's bad.

Second, SG does NOT set a minimum for phosphorus. There are no guarantees that your SG labeled bike oil will have a phosphorus content that exceeds 1000ppm (or 1200ppm - don't remember the SJ/SL standard).

Third, the SJ/SL phosphorus limit only applies to grades xxW-30 and down. Mfr's are free to formulate 20W-50's with loads of ZDDP.

>How do you know you aren't having thermal viscosity
>breakdown? My ZX12 is liquid cooled and it get HOT sitting
>at a light in the summer. I won't chance it. FWIW


Oil analysis. It's only way to truly know what's going on.

>In motorcycles, ATVs and related gasoline engines: drain oil at
>engine manufacturer's recommended drain interval."

>Now if they say run fleet vehicles up to 3 time the interval but
>motorcycles at recomended intervals there has to be a reason.

Probably because in many bike engines, not even the mighty Amsoil can stay in-grade for very long.

RM
 

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I think someone said it here in another thread, but Fram makes a filter (CH6012) to fit the zr7. It's only $3 or $4 at wal-mart.
I read in some oil filter comparo (I forget the link) that compared 3 cheapo filter brands.

Fram was crap, Purolator was good. I forget what the 3rd was.

I wonder who makes Kawa's filters?
 

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Newbie mechanic question:
What is the symptom(s) of a slipping clutch? I.e. how do I know if my clutch is slipping?

Chuck
 

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needabike said:


I read in some oil filter comparo (I forget the link) that compared 3 cheapo filter brands.

Fram was crap, Purolator was good. I forget what the 3rd was.

I wonder who makes Kawa's filters?
That has been going around for quite sometime, but when there's a picture attached it's always a spin-on type filter. I've been using Fram filters from Walmart (the 2 worse combinations the complainers complain about most) for quite a while now and, well as of today, 38,400 miles of no problems. I'll be changing my oil sometime this week and if there's any change in the condition of the oil filter (coming apart, holes, dead animals, etc.) I'll post it. :cool:
 

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The Fram cartridge type filter for out ZR-7's is as good as it gets.

Sure a Wix " Napa Gold " might be a bit better for long term use but it's not wise IMO to even try for long drain intervals with our motors or to change the filter every other oil change.

I used Fram can type filters on my Fords all my life. 3 separate cars and one truck ran well over 200k with them.

I wish I had known they were " crap " then!:~

Now the spin-on's for my other bikes are a different deal. I use the Wix and Purolaters.

STP has a good spin on bike filter as well.
 
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