[ChiangKawa]

Yesterday I upgraded my ER6f (2016) fork with Andreani Cartridge Kit (105/K07). Anyway things not seem and FEEL to be right. Diving, harsh, loss of traction...

I'm not sure if installation was correct as I can't help enough to adjust pre tension and/or compression/rebound. Today I found out that in the service they didn't put recommended fork fluid (Ohlin 1309) but filled with PUTOLINE HPX 10.
One BIG problem now is huge dive.

I'm going to bring the bike to another more reputable service tomorrow for inspection and fork oil change.

Local OHLIN representative said can't use PUTOLINE HPX 10. Ohlins 1309 not available here in Thailand but he recommended to put "OHLINs No. 20" (Visc. 98.1 cSt at 40 Deg). Is it good/okay? Viscosity pretty much different compared recommended Ohl.1309. How much this matters and which way?

PLEASE.

Someone, please give me proper and accurate information about oil. Also any other relevant comments and experiences are VERY welcome.
I want my bike to be rideable A.S.A.P.

Thanks.

 

[rcannon409]

I have zero specific info on yoru cartridges. You also measure oil weights differently than we do. In the old days, damping in forks was due to the oil being thick, or thin. You had 1/4 inch holes and thick oil flowed with more resistance than thin. This was your damping.

Cartridge forks use shims and valving to achieve the same. Its more exact. Typically, cartridge oil will be very thin. Somewhere around 5 weight (5w), or less. As thick as water. Going from 5w to 7.5w weight would be a massive, and likely unwanted change. At this point, oil weight pretty much stopped being a tuning item and more or less remained a constant thing.

That being said, trying to eliminate fork dive with a different weight oil is not really the proper way to do this. Excess fork dive is due to springs being too light.

Yes, you could use firm damping to conrol dive, but the damping needs to control the spring as the spring does work. I believe if you are trying to reduce fork dive, through oil weight, once you do it will be a system that beats you up on the bumps. That initial 1-2 inches of fork travel very much relies on the fork spring strength...Unless the oil you used is way, way thinner than what it supposed to have.

Heres some info that might help. Cartridge Forks

 

[ChiangKawa]

Thanks. Anyway I found root problem for issue.

"As I suspected it, the kit type that you mentioned is intended for 2006 to 2010 model Er6-n bikes:
Andreani Misano Fork Cartridge Kit 105/K07 Kawasaki ER-6N 2006/2010.
Maybe this is the root of the problem as earlier models have a softer front fork.
When I changed my fork springs with year specific progressive ones my fork was still soft but much more informative and compliant.

Later model Er6n - f's have a very stiff front fork so make sure that the kit is intended for your model year Er"

Let's see how I can solve this in the end. I was far too naive and trusted this "Pro Superbike Service". Asked cartridge kit for 2016 model but got this :jerkit:

 

[PeaPod]

I have a cartridge kit in my bike, and as the cartridge does the majority of the work, the fork oil is not used to affect fork behavior. I have 2.5 weight oil in it which allows the cartridge to do the duties of compression/rebound. Sounds like you may need a proper spring to be added to your bike to assist the cartridge in performing it's duties.

 

[rcannon409]

Yesterday I upgraded my ER6f (2016) fork with Andreani Cartridge Kit (105/K07). Anyway things not seem and FEEL to be right. Diving, harsh, loss of traction...

I'm not sure if installation was correct as I can't help enough to adjust pre tension and/or compression/rebound. Today I found out that in the service they didn't put recommended fork fluid (Ohlin 1309) but filled with PUTOLINE HPX 10.
One BIG problem now is huge dive.

I'm going to bring the bike to another more reputable service tomorrow for inspection and fork oil change.

Local OHLIN representative said can't use PUTOLINE HPX 10. Ohlins 1309 not available here in Thailand but he recommended to put "OHLINs No. 20" (Visc. 98.1 cSt at 40 Deg). Is it good/okay? Viscosity pretty much different compared recommended Ohl.1309. How much this matters and which way?

PLEASE.

Someone, please give me proper and accurate information about oil. Also any other relevant comments and experiences are VERY welcome.
I want my bike to be rideable A.S.A.P.

Thanks.

You guys use a different rating system than we do. I have no idea what cSt is as compared to our simple "w"


I found a table and 100cSt is equal to a 20w oil. 200cSt is equal to 25w

If thats the case, 19 cSt is going to be very thin. Id say very close to as light as you can possibly find. Probably a 3-5w. The stuff the other shop recommended sounds thick in comparison.

 

[ChiangKawa]

Okay.

Guys did fork job again. Changed correct oil. They did their best to readjust preload, as well compression and rebound. Anyway fork is still too soft for me. Someone could like this soft driving style but I like corner hard and I don’t have best feel of front. Also I feel in the corner front sinks and bike understeer.

I think springs are just too soft for my bike and driving style. I will change stiffer springs for cartridges if there are any suitable ones. Any recommendations?

I’m not going to try like "hard oil" or any other bad fix!

Thanks.

 

[SharkBait]

I have a cartridge kit in my bike, and as the cartridge does the majority of the work, the fork oil is not used to affect fork behavior.

A cartridge fork without oil is a pogo stick. Saying the oil does not affect the damping is wrong, it is critical to the damping.

Op - you'll want to use the springs that give you the proper sag measurement. The oil along with the ports and shim stack of the valves will determine the damping. A buddy of mine just put in some Andreani cartridges on his FJ 09 and like you he's not happy with them either. On a positive note, the Andreani's use one fork for compression and the other for rebound. This allows you to use thicker fluid on the compression fork without messing up the rebound. Changing the oil viscosity by itself may not be the best solution but it could help quite a bit and it's easy and cheap to try.

RC - The [email protected] measurement is a way to compare the thickness of an oil across different manufactures. The W system you know is not standardized so one manufactures 2.5w may actually be thicker than the 10w oil from another.

Suspension Fluid - Pvdwiki

 

[rgmr250]

You guys use a different rating system than we do. I have no idea what cSt is as compared to our simple "w"


I found a table and 100cSt is equal to a 20w oil. 200cSt is equal to 25w

If thats the case, 19 cSt is going to be very thin. Id say very close to as light as you can possibly find. Probably a 3-5w. The stuff the other shop recommended sounds thick in comparison.

Not all 20W (for example) fork oil is the same - it differs greatly between manufacturers. Apparently the cst and VI ratings are much more accurate, this (posted above as well) is a pretty good article explaining it: Suspension Fluid - Pvdwiki

 

[ChiangKawa]

I want to once more clarify my syspension components for my bike, Kawasaki NINJA 650 EX650F, (2016 model year).

FORK: Andreani Cartridge Kit (105/K07)

REAR SHOCK: Ohlins Shock Absorber for Kawasaki ER-6 (KA 906)

Can anyone say clearly if it is possible make bike suspension working ideally with these components together?

In case yes OR no. What are the problems?

My headache just gets worse and worse!

Thanks again.

 

[SharkBait]

I want to once more clarify my syspension components for my bike, Kawasaki NINJA 650 EX650F, (2016 model year).

FORK: Andreani Cartridge Kit (105/K07)

REAR SHOCK: Ohlins Shock Absorber for Kawasaki ER-6 (KA 906)

Can anyone say clearly if it is possible make bike suspension working ideally with these components together?

In case yes OR no. What are the problems?

My headache just gets worse and worse!

Thanks again.

Can those components be modified to work ideally? Yes

Will they work ideally on on the first attempt? That depends on the experience of your suspension guy and your ability to communicate what the problems are. Seeing that the manufacture didn't get it right on the first attempt, I wouldn't expect miracles from your suspension tuner without a few attempts.

Will it cost more to get this to work than going with something that already has a reputation for working should be a question to ask yourself.

 

[ChiangKawa]

Will it cost more to get this to work than going with something that already has a reputation for working should be a question to ask yourself.

I'm just praying now to find THE ONE ! Anyone knowing guy/s in Thailand, please let me know.

 

[rcannon409]

If you have to do this alone, first step in fixing it is the correct fork springs for your weight. I suspect the current issue is soft front, stiff rear, right?

No one can recommend a weight of fork spring without knowing your weight. If I had to pick a random for spring, I'd order a 1.0kg.mm . Thats often times is close enough for most weights.

 

[rcannon409]

A cartridge fork without oil is a pogo stick. Saying the oil does not affect the damping is wrong, it is critical to the damping.

Op - you'll want to use the springs that give you the proper sag measurement. The oil along with the ports and shim stack of the valves will determine the damping. A buddy of mine just put in some Andreani cartridges on his FJ 09 and like you he's not happy with them either. On a positive note, the Andreani's use one fork for compression and the other for rebound. This allows you to use thicker fluid on the compression fork without messing up the rebound. Changing the oil viscosity by itself may not be the best solution but it could help quite a bit and it's easy and cheap to try.

RC - The [email protected] measurement is a way to compare the thickness of an oil across different manufactures. The W system you know is not standardized so one manufactures 2.5w may actually be thicker than the 10w oil from another.

Suspension Fluid - Pvdwiki

That cSt measurement is where its at. We should be using the same.

A scotts steering damper is supposed to use 8w oil. Great. If you buy an 8w shock oil, its nowhere close to what scotts sells. The feel is 100% different.

Knowing the cSt would let me find the right one without having to pay 15.00 for a cup full.

 

[ChiangKawa]

If you have to do this alone, first step in fixing it is the correct fork springs for your weight. I suspect the current issue is soft front, stiff rear, right?

No one can recommend a weight of fork spring without knowing your weight. If I had to pick a random for spring, I'd order a 1.0kg.mm . Thats often times is close enough for most weights.

My weight with full gear 87 Kilos / 190 Lbs

 

[Bradmeister]

Greetings and Salutations to all my homies at Rider Forums! Happy Holidays too! Woot Woot!!!!

Back in the USA, and checking in on the Family! Great info and advise from all the Forum members as always..........Like a fresh of breath of fresh air!

I'll get ChaingKawa taken care of when I return to the Kingdom........ he's a bit away from me in BKK but we'll get him correct springs as well as several options to tame his front end. If I can remember, we'll also take some Pictures for The Forum!

Looking at some of the posts regarding Oils.......... Calculating out via SUS is problematic and I'm just not interested anymore.......lol. Since the Petervandone and the Wikipedia, (Not sure when that info was submitted) we can now actually calculate via straight Viscosity.....Not viscosity Index.

The [email protected] is now becoming the standard for all measuring for fork oils: thanks to our very own American Society for Testing and Measuring.......Most of us know this as ASTM.

So instead of the Automotive Engineering, The SAE folks, The API Folks and everyone else in the free world (who uses their own measuring systems) and so on and so forth.......The Hydraulic Fluid Companies have stepped up to the plate and have helped all of Us with fork Oils to be better tuners! Although this link is 6 years old, its within 2 units of current Viscosities for almost every manufacturer making Fork Oils.

Since I'm now in "collaborating" with Ohlins and Several motorcycle Manufacturers in Thailand, I hope you all find this list as useful as I do!

https://transmoto.com.au/comparative-oil-weights-table/

I especially like the table to the right to tell me what the oil is made from (Natural/Synthetic) and That it lists the O.E. Manufacturers Viscosity (beginning) as well.

Really great to see the immense amount of Wisdom being shared with the membership and Some great Threads with Posts with Pictures that are truly all encompassing and better than factory service manuals!

Have a wonderful Holiday to all! ....and a Happy New Year!

Bradmeister