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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Help guys!

Another won't start thread I'm affraid. :confuse:

Have recently fitted a pair of akrapovic race cans and a power commander and a pipercross filter. - ran fine before, ran great after. (used the remus open can and aftermarket or stock filter, map from this forum).

Around 4 days, after a few short runs with the upgrades on, I stopped riding the bike for a week due to bad weather.

When I next tried to start it, it wouldn't start. Turned over, but I flattened the battery trying to get it fired up. Tried bump starting, no joy!

Charged the battery for a week while on holiday, then tried again on my return, turned over a couple of times more than normal, but then with a little choke, it fired up. (was supprised it needed choke though).

I rode it around for a couple of hours, stopped and started it a few times no problems.

Tried to go to work on it from cold today, wouldn't start. Turns over, has fuel (when I disconnect the tank, fuel runs out the hose), FI light comes on after about 3 seconds after turning over.

I disconected the powercommander, still not joy.

Turns over fine, but won't fire up.

semi back fired a bit on down changes after upgrades, before the problems, made me think it may be running a bit rich and that could have some how caused the issue.

Bit confused, it's been ace until now. I'm certain the battery is good as I often keep it on charge.
 

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have you checked that you got spark? , check your plugs & leads ? you got clean fuel . 'hhmm' this is a ball breaker , check all your fuses & that the fuel pump is working ? it can only be a fuelling or spark / electrical problem , i'd be calling my nearest Kawasaki workshop for a once over of the bike "if all else fail's" ..
 

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if the FI light comes on the ECU should have loged a fault. the manual has info on how to get fault codes and what to do with the info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
no spark

thanks guys, will check out the manual for ecu fault info. Took the 2 outside plugs off tonight. Couldn't see a spark on weak turn-over (as I ran the battery down last night trying to start the bike). - touched the plug tip on the frame to make the spark easier to see, - nothing!.

Could just be the battery after last night (not the primary fault, but caused along the way), - have put it on charge now. But the plugs look black around the first 4-5 threads and medium brown on the tips. I'm no expert on plug colours, but I'm going to take them to work tomorrow and get some feedback.

Hopefully could just be fowled plugs from a wrong fuel map causing it to run to rich. - will follow up when I get some feedback on the plugs. Might try a new set if work reckon they are ditched.
 

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did it start??these z,s are weird nothing like my cbr 600rr ..with lots of maintence problems ..that suks because i like the bike..but when i get on the 600 everything seems better,cornering,no speed wobbles,no clunky trans,etc ...wobbles about between 120 mph and up..or on windy days..i have a 636 rear shock .it will go in soon..hope it makes a diverence..:slap:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK, so, took my outside 2 plugs to work and they said:

"they look ok, to be honest. They are a hazel brown on the tips, which is pretty normal for good plugs. Looks very slightly rich, but nothing to cause a problem"

- So with this in mind, I refitted the plugs tonight. Tried to start the bike up, about 4 times. Turn over for about 5 seconds each time. - Took one of the plugs out after, to see if it was wet, to prove fuel was getting to the engine. And it was dry as a gone!!!.

Also, strangely, I couldn't get a visible spark when trying to start the bike with one of the plugs touched on the frame or on the un-powder coated metal bolts etc.

So currently, we've got dry plugs after a start attempt, and no visible spark!

In addition, I've found a loose wire on the fly lead to the battery, into which I connect my charger. - So now I'm thinking that it may be the battery, which I thought was previously on charge, but may not have been due to a dodgy battery fly lead. - Although it still turned over well, would a run down battery cause no spark at all???

I've put the nipple clamps on the battery terminals tonight, to ensure it's charging and will try another start attempt tomorrow night. - The dry plugs seem odd though.

Will keep plodding on, don't want to pay a dealer just yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just tried starting it with the battery connected to the charger. - I previously thought that was a bit of a no no, but figured it was worth a go. The headlight came on brighter and the engine turned over quicker, so I think it was getting the elec power it needed, but still not start. - Will dig the manual out now to and reference the FI light, which still comes on after a few seconds of trying to start.
 

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Just tried starting it with the battery connected to the charger. - I previously thought that was a bit of a no no, but figured it was worth a go. The headlight came on brighter and the engine turned over quicker, so I think it was getting the elec power it needed, but still not start. - Will dig the manual out now to and reference the FI light, which still comes on after a few seconds of trying to start.
I have had similar experiences where something went wrong shortly after doing a mod on the bike but where initially everything ran fine. Pretty much all of the time I found out something got loose during the disassembly/assembly.

Try to eliminate the very very simple stuff out first. Take everything apart to the point of before installing the new part and start putting it all together again making sure there weren't some extra things to connect to the pipes that you missed, or electrical plugs are clear, or things rubbing somewhere, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok, so tonght - I've checked all the fueses I can find. Checked all the wiring/connectors etc. I've filled the tank with new petrol. I've checked the air-box hasnt' got animals hiding in it.

I've made sure the battery is fully charged. - Well it's been on the charger all nights and was showing as fully charged.

I've pulled the spark plug again after trying to start it and still it's dry.

So still after checking everything, I've got dry plugs on start attempt and no spark when I remove the plug and try and start it.

FI light after about 3 seconds of trying to start and no FI light guide in the user manual about finding the cause.

Am open to any comments guys, I really need some feedback. I've checked all hoses and plugs are seated correctly.

I'm sure it's electrical, but the only way this could cause no fuel to the engine in my mind, is via a the fuel pump not working? - dosen't explain the spark issue though.

I'm all ears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This seems relevant off another post, as it explains the no spark and no fuel.

The other post was FI light warning during riding though, which was cured by simply cleaning and re-seating wiring. - which I've done.

"If the vehicle-down sensor system has failures (the output voltage Vd is more than usable range, wiring open), the ECU shuts off the fuel pump, the fuel injectors and the ignition system."
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
New battery fitted tonight. - No better, sadly.

Managed to get a dealer manual.

I've put the bike in diagnostic mode 1, by putting a wire in the yellow/orange lead under the seat, then touching it on the battery for over 2 seconds after the FI light came on when trying to start.

It gives error code 23, which is cam shaft position sensor. I've checked the wiring to this component and all is ok.

I think the cam shaft sensor gives a no signal error anyway until the engine is running? - therefore, should I be focusing on this error code?

I'm tryinig to put the bike into dealer diagnostic mode 2, as per the workshop manual, but I can't figure out how to do it. The diagrams and instructions in the dealer manual don't make sense. - Can someone explain this mode set-up to me in simple terms? I get the touching 5 times bit, but don't get the wiring configuration.

I'm hoping that this mode will give me a fault before the above which may help from the fault history. - Unless you guys think I should be focusing on this fault 23 and that it's not normal, when the engine is not running.

I think I'm getting there, so please, don't hold back!:alcy:
 

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When it tries to start is it turning over faster than normal?

Mine did this and it turned out to be low compression due to carbon build up on the valves. This happened at about 2300 miles so the dealer took care of it under warranty. I know, sounds fishy to me also but that's what they said.
 

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i dont know enough about the Z to say accurately... but some FI systems wont fire unless the cam and crank are both present... so the cam sensor could start a problem.
 

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???its like a rubiks cube ???hope u get it running ..every time i read stuff on the z i get worried it might happen 2 me...and mine.:blowup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
all good suggestions, I've given up and let the dealer collect it for 20 pounds and do an inspection for 35 quid. That's not a bad price in my opinion for an answer, so I'll let you all know what the deal is in a few days. Your help has been really appreciated, I've learned loads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yep, getting the bike back from the dealer tomorrow. It was the Cam Shaft Position Sensor.

£72 total cost. This included £20 to collect the bike, the cost of the part and fitting time.

I'm happy at that.
 

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What is a collecting the bike fee? They came to your house and picked it up?
 

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Yep, getting the bike back from the dealer tomorrow. It was the Cam Shaft Position Sensor.

£72 total cost. This included £20 to collect the bike, the cost of the part and fitting time.

I'm happy at that.

Too bad I did not read this thread earlyer. I could have saved you some money. I had the exact same symptoms on my 03 Z. I read the fault codes and found there was a fault with the camshaft position circuit. I took out the cam sensor and found that it had metal shavings on it. The camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensors are simple magnetic pulse generators which means they have a pretty strong magnent at the end of them. After riding for a while you may get a bit of metal debris build up on them. I just cleaned up the sensor with a rag and I have put on 45 000 k on the bike since.
 
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