I went out to the garage this morning, turned the key, hit the start button and got (each time) a single (kinda loud) click. Great, I thought, battery's dead. Hooked up the trickle charger and drove the Civic to work and spent lunch surfing the web for a decent battery to replace it. Turns out Manassas Honda Kawi has very nice Lith-Ion batteries that give twice the cold cranking amps, so I thought I'd buy one on the way home, but CRAP, left my wallet in my motorcycle jacket this morning! No money... so...

Got home, tried to start the bike again, same exact click. Now I'm thinking maybe not the battery. I took the airbox out, hooked jumpers from the Civic and tried again, CLICK.

Traced the the click to the starter relay, tested in and out voltage, 13.2 (great!). So it's the start motor that's quit. Great.. Googled a little and read that someone whacked his starter motor with a wrench while pressing the start button and the bike started, so I tried that and while it didn't start, it did CRANK a little! The follow on to that thread I found was to take it apart and clean it out.

So I spent the next 2 hours removing, disassembling and cleaning my starter motor. It was disgusting in there! Tons of old grease and bits of what looked like gasket maker goo. I also noticed that one of the brushes is really worn, needs replacing. But I put it all back together, put it back in the bike and man, it fired up quicker than I ever remember it starting since I bought it last year.

I am kinda patting myself on the back for that one. But I think I will need a rebuild kit or brushes from a parts store by winter.

Yeah, that was me with the starter motor problems

It worked for a while and then got to the point where it no longer cranked.
I bought a used starter off ebay for about $100 or so. There are brush kits for $25 on ebay.

PJ, if you want to ride the bike when it won't start, just give it a push start. That worked for me till I got the new starter installed.

I used to push start my '86 Yahama FZ750 a lot. It has charging issues. Thanks for the reminder. I hope my cleaning job lasts at least this whole riding season. I took the whole thing a part and cleaned it thoroughly. The only red flag was the wear on one of the brushes. I took a look at the link you had to eBay on that old thread and for $25 that kit is a thing of beauty! Wish I had it this afternoon! I will hold off buying it now till it starts to give me trouble again.

Link for those interested: ZR7 Starter Rebuild Kit

Did you end up giving away your starter motor?

Yeah, I did.
I sent it to sh0rtlife. I thought he could put it to better use...

yup and i will rebuild it....just havnt had the time to even open up the box LOL..

i seriously would wait till you NEED the rebuild kit to order it..order it and let it sit on the shelf atleast then when you NEED it you have it on hand and dont have to wait a week on shipping

So after two days of flawless, eager starting I got the dreaded "click" of the starter relay and no start again this morning. I push started it this time and rode to work. I'll order the rebuild kit now.

Quick question: Other than a dab on the gears in there, is grease necessary inside the starter motor? Nowhere in the shop manual does it mention adding grease (dielectric or otherwise) to any part of the inside of the starter. I'm particularly concerned about the space between the rotating armature and permanent magnet casing.

Thanks for all the info and insight!

Paul

UPDATE: Rebuild kit ordered. Props to eBay store Discount Starter and Alternator who continued to take my order over the phone (I don't do PayPal) on paper even though a transformer blew while he was talking to me.

theres only 1 place you want ANYTHING and thats the bearing surfaces...try and get something fairly light into them..there is useualy some small ultra thin washers at both ends of the motor..a little on them is also good..beyond that NO everything should be clean and dry

dont forget to polish up the com

Hate to sound like a noob but what's "the com"? :}

Edit: Oh wait, found this on Graeme's post...
The commutator ....those series of copper segments which conduct current into the rotating armature wear and can be reconditoned by skimming in a lathe.

I'm assuming I can use some really fine sandpaper (like 1000 grit) to polish it up...

Hey PJ, sorry to hear the starter lasted for only 2 days!
Better luck on the "real" rebuild. Keep us updated.
BTW, push starting a 525 pound bike daily keeps you in shape

Originally Posted by pjgeorge

So after two days of flawless, eager starting I got the dreaded "click" of the starter relay and no start again this morning. I push started it this time and rode to work. I'll order the rebuild kit now.

Quick question: Other than a dab on the gears in there, is grease necessary inside the starter motor? Nowhere in the shop manual does it mention adding grease (dielectric or otherwise) to any part of the inside of the starter. I'm particularly concerned about the space between the rotating armature and permanent magnet casing.

Thanks for all the info and insight!

Paul

UPDATE: Rebuild kit ordered. Props to eBay store Discount Starter and Alternator who continued to take my order over the phone (I don't do PayPal) on paper even though a transformer blew while he was talking to me.

I hate to tell you, but that brush plate is not going to work for your bike. 2 weeks ago purchased the same one from the same company and finally got my refund today. The brushes are in the wrong position on the brush plate causing the polarity to be reversed which will make your starter spin in the oposite direction. You could remove the brushes from the new kit and re-solder them onto your old brush plate. Or you could buy two of these Brush - Mitsuba, 47-8355, $1.99 and be out 4 dollars for new brushes.

i general chuck the armeture(main part of the motr) in a drill or drill press and spin it up ..if the scoring is bad i start with 220 wetsand(used dry tho) and then step up to 400 and finish with 600...1000 is not likely to do much

Originally Posted by Stampederunner

I hate to tell you, but that brush plate is not going to work for your bike. 2 weeks ago purchased the same one from the same company and finally got my refund today. The brushes are in the wrong position on the brush plate causing the polarity to be reversed which will make your starter spin in the oposite direction. You could remove the brushes from the new kit and re-solder them onto your old brush plate. Or you could buy two of these Brush - Mitsuba, 47-8355, $1.99 and be out 4 dollars for new brushes.

Thanks for the warning! I'm wondering how he can sell any of them... Could it be that the brush placement was changed between different models or years? I'll take a close look at it before changing anything. I'm also tempted to hook up 12 volts and spin it before and after the swap. I'm wondering if there's another way to get it to spin the right way.... swapping the positive and negative inputs is not going to work because it uses the frame as ground. I'm not very good at soldering, I'd be afraid the vibrations with break my solder. We'll see on Tuesday when it gets to my house.

Here's a question, could the body of the starter (the cylindrical housing with the permanent magnets) be put on in reverse to cause the motor to spin backwards? Google told me that is a common cause of backward spinning starters.

Here's a pic of the cylinder part, it looks like it'd be very easy to slip that cylinder on backwards.... Funny it has no part number.
starter.JPG

Originally Posted by pjgeorge

Here's a question, could the body of the starter (the cylindrical housing with the permanent magnets) be put on in reverse to cause the motor to spin backwards? Google told me that is a common cause of backward spinning starters.

Here's a pic of the cylinder part, it looks like it'd be very easy to slip that cylinder on backwards.... Funny it has no part number.
starter.JPG

No there are different notches on each side. The side with the gear on it also has a pin that holds a plate and the large gear on the inside stationary. It will only go back together one way.

I hear ya, I just took mine apart again and I see the notch, it's also slightly different inside the lip on either side too. I emailed Greg Miller (starterman@gmail.com) from Discount Starter and Alternator to ask if he's had many returns. He told me he's sold 209 of those kits since last August and the only problems he has is when ppl order bsed on numbers off the Internet instead of getting the number off the starter itself. I'm guilty as well. I'm at my kid's swim practice atm so cannot look at it to get the part number (if there is one) off the starter itself. But he said to send him the number off the unit and he'll let me know it it;s right. Either way, it'll be here Tuesday and I'll figure something out. I'll keep you posted.