Questions for Z1k GURUS/Einsteins Out There

AWD Ninja · 06-25-09, 12:58 PM

Okay, for a little preface I have been tuning mitsubishis EVO's and Subarus STI/WRX's for some time now. And i understand most of all the mechanics that it takes to get them in the 400+ hp arena. Well one of the new big things is tuning for E85 aka Ethanol. Ethanol is GREAT for boosted cars ! it burns lower, cleaner, and has a pretty high octane. It helps get crazy power out of those 2 cars mentioned above.

Now the questions: Has anyone tuned thier Z for E85 ? Did you have to get bigger injectors (I would think you would) ? Fuel pump ect... ??
How do you go about 'tuning' a bike ?? (i use a data logging computer AMS FTW)
Other questions:
Is there any bigger, nicer radiators out there for the Z ?? my bike runs to hot for my liking

Well thanks for taking the time to read this ! here is a funny pic to reward you !

lagarman001 · 06-25-09, 02:44 PM

I don't know about your ethanol question, but I also didn't like how HOT the Z ran, so I changed out the coolant to the stuff I use for dirtbike riding. The coolant is called "Engine Ice" and it's blue in color. The stuff is amazing and my bike runs significantly cooler (at least 10-20 degrees cooler). It's safe to use in our aluminum radiatiors, but it's pricey at $20/bottle and you will need 2 bottles for the size of the Z's rad.

AWD Ninja · 06-25-09, 03:42 PM

WOW thanks for the tip ! Im gonna run out and get some asap ! ! I'm excited to use it ! While I saw driving up to the photo shoot yesterday on the highway the Zed was at 205-215, I thought it was WAY to high

whitebread · 06-25-09, 04:11 PM

I would think you would need significant fuel system mods to run ethanol. You could probably calculate the PSI requirements and BSFC of the engine on E85 and dial everything with an aftermarket EFI like Motec or something similar.

I changing out to 1/2 distilled and 1/2 water wetter tonight. Been 105 all week here in central Texas!!

As far as a larger radiator, there are a zillion options. I'd get one from a supersport bike that has similar inlet/outlet/tab locations and fab up some small brackets to make it look somewhat "factory"....

atschach · 06-25-09, 04:55 PM

How hot is too hot for the bike to run? I have been riding in Dallas the last few days when its been over 100 and my bike has gotten up to 223 a couple times. It is only when I get slowed way down or stopped and not much longer than a minute or two. I assume it will be alright for short stints but once it gets over 230 I will be lane splitting or riding in the median or whatever to keep it cool

AWDimprezaL · 06-25-09, 05:52 PM

The absolute hottest my 08 has seen is 218, not one degree higher...wtf is wrong with your guy's bikes?

As for the ethanol, I dont think you would see much of a gain with it, its probably worth a shot however, get a map custom tuned for it, you'll need to have the injectors flow quite a bit more then stock as E85 doesnt produce as much energy as gasoline and requires MORE to act the same, IMO it would work best if you were going to be boosting, as its 110+ octane fuel.

AWD Ninja · 06-25-09, 06:08 PM

Well I just got back from the local street bike shop. I got 2 things of engine ice ! the guys at the shop ranted and raved about how good it is.

atschach · 06-25-09, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWDimprezaL

The absolute hottest my 08 has seen is 218, not one degree higher...wtf is wrong with your guy's bikes?

I drive about 50 miles in a heat index of 105 degrees F. The Z keeps cool as long as I am atleast driving over 15-20 mph but if i get slower than that it really heats up. May have to go to engine ice, that stuff is expensive though

motorbum · 06-25-09, 06:59 PM

It's been fairly hot here in NC the past few weeks, in the 90s. My bike when I am riding stays around 180f-185f. My interstate speed is between 80-85mph, and I pretty much handle the speed limit all other times. The only time my temp goes up significantly is waiting at traffic lights. I have seen 219 as the hottest at a stop light, but when the fan comes on it drops 10-15 degrees in a matter of seconds.

AWDimprezaL · 06-25-09, 07:40 PM

Yup, temp here is in the mid 90s I was in an hours worth of stop and go this afternoon, didnt get over 218, the fans kicked on at 216, it went up to 218 cooled back down to 210 and repeated untill I started to move.

atschach · 06-25-09, 08:17 PM

Yea there is a huge difference between 90 and 100. The hottest I would see back in Denver was usally 90 which is pretty managable, could wear a jacket, and my bike wouldn't get too hot. Triple digits is a different story, and the humidity doesn't help either. I am in heaven when the sun goes behind a cloud for a minute or two cause it makes a huge difference. Hopefully temperatures don't climb any higher, for the sake of me and my Z

Pvt. Snowball · 06-25-09, 09:28 PM

[quote=AWD Ninja;539341]Okay, for a little preface I have been tuning mitsubishis EVO's and Subarus STI/WRX's for some time now. And i understand most of all the mechanics that it takes to get them in the 400+ hp arena. Well one of the new big things is tuning for E85 aka Ethanol. Ethanol is GREAT for boosted cars ! it burns lower, cleaner, and has a pretty high octane. It helps get crazy power out of those 2 cars mentioned above.

Now the questions: Has anyone tuned thier Z for E85 ? Did you have to get bigger injectors (I would think you would) ? Fuel pump ect... ??
How do you go about 'tuning' a bike ?? (i use a data logging computer AMS FTW)
Other questions:
Is there any bigger, nicer radiators out there for the Z ?? my bike runs to hot for my liking

Well thanks for taking the time to read this ! here is a funny pic to reward you !
If ya want cooler temps, the Engine Ice is your huckleberry. If ya want some bling, the ZX-7R radiator is big-n-curvy, and a popular swap on the ZRX. Dunno if it fits the Z (I'm pretty sure no other rad will just bolt on).

dippitydoo · 06-26-09, 08:43 AM

When we use to race in the late 50's and 60's we used straight alchohol and the mixture had to be drastically richened to realize any power gains. With an 85 15 mixture it would not be that bad but a power commander would probably do the trick. Also ethanol burns much cooler than gasoline. We did not have radiators on the drag strip back then and the motor remained within temperature limits for relatively very long periods of time 10 to 15 minutes. Of course with a 85 15 mixture it would still overheat without the radiator but you will probably run cooler than you are now. I am neither an Einstein or a guru but a few shots of Jim Beam and a beer are excellent tuning tools.

AWD Ninja · 06-26-09, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dippitydoo

... I am neither an Einstein or a guru but a few shots of Jim Beam and a beer are excellent tuning tools.

The best line i have EVER seen ! ! and great info too ! im gonna do some reading

06-25-09, 12:58 PM	#1
AWD Ninja Up-And Comer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 78	Questions for Z1k GURUS/Einsteins Out There Okay, for a little preface I have been tuning mitsubishis EVO's and Subarus STI/WRX's for some time now. And i understand most of all the mechanics that it takes to get them in the 400+ hp arena. Well one of the new big things is tuning for E85 aka Ethanol. Ethanol is GREAT for boosted cars ! it burns lower, cleaner, and has a pretty high octane. It helps get crazy power out of those 2 cars mentioned above. Now the questions: Has anyone tuned thier Z for E85 ? Did you have to get bigger injectors (I would think you would) ? Fuel pump ect... ?? How do you go about 'tuning' a bike ?? (i use a data logging computer AMS FTW) Other questions: Is there any bigger, nicer radiators out there for the Z ?? my bike runs to hot for my liking Well thanks for taking the time to read this ! here is a funny pic to reward you ! __________________ 03 Z1K Orange FTW !

06-25-09, 02:44 PM	#2
lagarman001 Rising Star Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Central Pennsylvania Posts: 216	I don't know about your ethanol question, but I also didn't like how HOT the Z ran, so I changed out the coolant to the stuff I use for dirtbike riding. The coolant is called "Engine Ice" and it's blue in color. The stuff is amazing and my bike runs significantly cooler (at least 10-20 degrees cooler). It's safe to use in our aluminum radiatiors, but it's pricey at $20/bottle and you will need 2 bottles for the size of the Z's rad. __________________ Live to ride - Ride to live 03' Orange Z1000 Zero Gravity Double Bubble/ Jardine Fender Eliminator (w/ mods)/ K&N Air Filter/ 04 ZX-10 Rear Shock/ Shogun Framesliders/ Rizoma Casesliders/ Rizoma Track 01 Signals, Pazzo Long Levers, Spencer's Seat Mod/ EBC HH Pads/ MUZZY 4-1 SS Headers & TI Can + PCIII = YEA HAW!!!

06-25-09, 03:42 PM	#3
AWD Ninja Up-And Comer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 78	WOW thanks for the tip ! Im gonna run out and get some asap ! ! I'm excited to use it ! While I saw driving up to the photo shoot yesterday on the highway the Zed was at 205-215, I thought it was WAY to high __________________ 03 Z1K Orange FTW !

06-25-09, 04:11 PM	#4
whitebread Rising Star Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: A constant state of 2-wheel flux! Posts: 433	I would think you would need significant fuel system mods to run ethanol. You could probably calculate the PSI requirements and BSFC of the engine on E85 and dial everything with an aftermarket EFI like Motec or something similar. I changing out to 1/2 distilled and 1/2 water wetter tonight. Been 105 all week here in central Texas!! As far as a larger radiator, there are a zillion options. I'd get one from a supersport bike that has similar inlet/outlet/tab locations and fab up some small brackets to make it look somewhat "factory".... __________________ '03 Z1K- ZX636/ZX9/ZX10/R1/home-made junk, no bling, some other crap, in progress..

06-25-09, 04:55 PM	#5
atschach Site Elder Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 857	How hot is too hot for the bike to run? I have been riding in Dallas the last few days when its been over 100 and my bike has gotten up to 223 a couple times. It is only when I get slowed way down or stopped and not much longer than a minute or two. I assume it will be alright for short stints but once it gets over 230 I will be lane splitting or riding in the median or whatever to keep it cool __________________ 2005 Raw Titanium Z1000 PCIII, BMC Air Filter & Airbox Mod, Renthal Ultra Low's, 520 -1/+2 Conversion, Hyperpro RSC Steering Damper 636 Forks and Calipers, 07' 636 Front Wheel, Tach LED swap w/black face, Other Stickers Muzzy Headers, LeoVince GP Can, Pazzo Levers, TSW Trackstar 4 Wheel, Gold Rim Stipes Frame & Swingarm Sliders, Fender Eliminator, TechSpec, Honda VFR Single Sided Swingarm

06-25-09, 05:52 PM	#6
AWDimprezaL Rising Star Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Monticello, MN Posts: 231	The absolute hottest my 08 has seen is 218, not one degree higher...wtf is wrong with your guy's bikes? As for the ethanol, I dont think you would see much of a gain with it, its probably worth a shot however, get a map custom tuned for it, you'll need to have the injectors flow quite a bit more then stock as E85 doesnt produce as much energy as gasoline and requires MORE to act the same, IMO it would work best if you were going to be boosting, as its 110+ octane fuel. __________________ 08 Z1K: Two bros carbon slipons, PC3 w/custom map, gutted and wrapped stock header, sammana systems servo motor delete, ORANGE puig screen, CRG blindsight mirrors, +2 rear sprocket, speedo healer, uni pod filters. In early stages: Turbo kit.

06-25-09, 06:08 PM	#7
AWD Ninja Up-And Comer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 78	Well I just got back from the local street bike shop. I got 2 things of engine ice ! the guys at the shop ranted and raved about how good it is. __________________ 03 Z1K Orange FTW !

06-25-09, 06:59 PM	#9
motorbum Rising Star Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 491	It's been fairly hot here in NC the past few weeks, in the 90s. My bike when I am riding stays around 180f-185f. My interstate speed is between 80-85mph, and I pretty much handle the speed limit all other times. The only time my temp goes up significantly is waiting at traffic lights. I have seen 219 as the hottest at a stop light, but when the fan comes on it drops 10-15 degrees in a matter of seconds.

06-25-09, 07:40 PM	#10
AWDimprezaL Rising Star Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Monticello, MN Posts: 231	Yup, temp here is in the mid 90s I was in an hours worth of stop and go this afternoon, didnt get over 218, the fans kicked on at 216, it went up to 218 cooled back down to 210 and repeated untill I started to move. __________________ 08 Z1K: Two bros carbon slipons, PC3 w/custom map, gutted and wrapped stock header, sammana systems servo motor delete, ORANGE puig screen, CRG blindsight mirrors, +2 rear sprocket, speedo healer, uni pod filters. In early stages: Turbo kit.

06-25-09, 08:17 PM	#11
atschach Site Elder Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 857	Yea there is a huge difference between 90 and 100. The hottest I would see back in Denver was usally 90 which is pretty managable, could wear a jacket, and my bike wouldn't get too hot. Triple digits is a different story, and the humidity doesn't help either. I am in heaven when the sun goes behind a cloud for a minute or two cause it makes a huge difference. Hopefully temperatures don't climb any higher, for the sake of me and my Z __________________ 2005 Raw Titanium Z1000 PCIII, BMC Air Filter & Airbox Mod, Renthal Ultra Low's, 520 -1/+2 Conversion, Hyperpro RSC Steering Damper 636 Forks and Calipers, 07' 636 Front Wheel, Tach LED swap w/black face, Other Stickers Muzzy Headers, LeoVince GP Can, Pazzo Levers, TSW Trackstar 4 Wheel, Gold Rim Stipes Frame & Swingarm Sliders, Fender Eliminator, TechSpec, Honda VFR Single Sided Swingarm

06-26-09, 08:43 AM	#13
dippitydoo Site Elder Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 908	Ethanol When we use to race in the late 50's and 60's we used straight alchohol and the mixture had to be drastically richened to realize any power gains. With an 85 15 mixture it would not be that bad but a power commander would probably do the trick. Also ethanol burns much cooler than gasoline. We did not have radiators on the drag strip back then and the motor remained within temperature limits for relatively very long periods of time 10 to 15 minutes. Of course with a 85 15 mixture it would still overheat without the radiator but you will probably run cooler than you are now. I am neither an Einstein or a guru but a few shots of Jim Beam and a beer are excellent tuning tools.

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