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Dobeck Gen 3.5 vs. Power Commander 3

This is a discussion on Dobeck Gen 3.5 vs. Power Commander 3 within the Mean Streak Performance Upgrades forums, part of the Kawasaki Mean Streak category; A quick History lesson here, for those who donít know, Mark Dobeck was the founder of Dynojet, and Bill Kirkpatrick, who was at Dynojet, too, ...

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Thread: Dobeck Gen 3.5 vs. Power Commander 3

  1. #1
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Dobeck Gen 3.5 vs. Power Commander 3

    A quick History lesson here, for those who donít know, Mark Dobeck was the founder of Dynojet, and Bill Kirkpatrick, who was at Dynojet, too, is the head engineer at Dobeck Performance, now.
    My current bike is a 2007 Kawasaki Meanstreak 1600 with hard chrome stripper exhaust. I have using the PC-3 and downloaded the Map from Power Commanderís website for the hard chrome pipes. I also fine tuned it to get the maximum performance.
    I will now be evaluating the latest fuel management system from Dobeck, the Gen 3.5, and I will give an unbiased review.

    The Gen 3.5 uses Load Based Tuning, instead of Alpha-N Tuning. The difference here is that Alpha-N Tuning takes into account Throttle Position (TPS) and RPM to construct a grid to fill in fuel values. Load Based Tuning takes into account RATE, TPS and RPM to construct three main zones for fuel adjustment. Most of the controllers on the market use Alpha-N Tuning because it is the easiest way to make calculations. Load Based Tuning takes more advanced calculations and breaks a drive cycle down into easy to understand zones to allow for quicker and more precise adjustments.
    Some other features of the Gen 3.5 are:
    ∑ NO COMPUTER NEEDED

    ∑ NO DYNO REQUIRED

    ∑ You can both add and subtract fuel from the stock Map

    ∑ Plug Ní Play Installation - Minutes to Install, Base Settings are Preset

    ∑ Does Not Interfere with Stock ECU Operation

    ∑ Simple Push Button Adjustment Interface

    ∑ Water-Resistant

    I really like the Meanstreak, but it has so much more potential in the motor. I have spent countless hours with the PC-3 and but still have not harnessed that power. It has such a narrow power band, and the power falls off after 5000 rpms. I called Dobeck Performance and spoke to Matt and he told me about the new Gen 3.5 and said they would like to develop it for the Meanstreak. So, here I am, testing the 3.5. I mounted it on top of the tank so I can have easy access to make the adjustments. I am not being paid for this, I am just trying to find ways to unleash the performance of the Meanstreak, and thought I would share my experience with you.
    gen 3.5 002.jpggen 3.5 004.jpg
    JJSuperstar likes this.

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  3. #2
    Site Elder Nyinfamous2k2's Avatar
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    great work, im definitely going to keep my eye on this thread. thanks
    2002 Mean Streak 1500, vance n hines straight shots de baffled, genmar risers, Hotbox, Mapam forward controls
    , 200/55 Avon cobra rear, 130/70 Avon storm front, sickle mirrors, ToyTech license plate mount, Progressive 444 shocks, spike intake, PC3, chrome spike grips, chrome bullet rear signals, chrome passanger pegs, chrome master cyl & brake res cover & switch housings, + other minor chrome parts. MassMax V-stream windshield.

  4. #3
    Rising Star oneworden's Avatar
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    what is the price!!!
    02' Meanie - Gold (sounds pricier)
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  5. #4
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    I do not know what the Gen 3.5 will sell for yet
    Last edited by Anthony; 04-16-11 at 09:16 PM.

  6. #5
    Rising Star jd521's Avatar
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    This all sounds pretty good and yet leaves a lot of questions and concerns when it comes to tuning and especially for those of us with different intakes and exhausts. Like the Dyno-Jet there seems to be several maps and without using an O2 sensor and mapping the exhaust at the various riding conditions / dyno runs ,this makes it nearly impossible to know when to add or take away fuel.

    When someone actually comes up with a variable map to make those adjustments to maintain a 12.0 to 13.2 A/F RATIO, then I'll be happy to try one other than the PC III. I do not want readers of this thread to think I do not like the PC III , I just haven't had the time YET to have the dyno session myself to see the improvements I would think possibly attainable by spending the money on such a session.

    Again, without my pockets being flushed with additional greenbacks, I would simply love to experiment with the mapping using INNOVATE Motorsports LM-1 and and O2 sensor for the sideburners. If I am not mistaken some of the automobile chassis dynos do somewhat a similar procedure using two sensors for both banks of exhaust and fine tune the A/F ratio to a desired 12.- 13.5 . The article that I posted about several months ago on a Harley site is what I am referiing too. I can not say how much difference there would be from riding and getting data vs. a dyno session but I would think the field test ( riding ) might be superior vs. the dyno. Only proff of that would be trying it. If there would be several of us close enough that would want to try this and share in the cost of the equipment it would certainly cut out a lot from just one individuals wallet.

    That being said.... I too, for now will keep up on the newer Dobeck device to see how much better it will be.....

    Thanks for posting the topic.
    Former and Proud Owner of a 07 S.E. Mean Streak. Traded 9/25/12 for a 2012 Candy Lime Green Kawasaki Vaquero.

  7. #6
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    I will be on here tomorrow to give an update on how the Gen 3.5 performed.

  8. #7
    Rising Star hbgregg's Avatar
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    butt-dyno is good when it's your own butt. a real dyno chart would be good to have. hopefully, Dobeck will make that available.
    '07 Kawasaki Mean Streak
    Cobra Slashdowns, KŁryakyn Swingwings, Stebel Air Horn, No Stinking Badges, Avons

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    Rising Star terrym95's Avatar
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    Pricey but worth the money???

    OK, say this is true, if one had enough money then one could do any mod, turbo, blower or fogger and this FI would be able to adjust 80 times a second to your hand twist.

    Who got the pocket change to find out?

    Customcycles says this about the FI2000R Powerpro:

    New patented technology unlike any other auto tune system on the market. Tunes to exactly what air-fuel mixture creates the maximum power 80 times per second does not tune to some arbitrary AFR someone has picked. Creates that adjustment to maximum power on every squirt of the injector.

    Its like having the best custom writing dyno operator tuning your fuel every time you crank the throttle. Tunes every gear every roll on every environmental change every engine mod lugging the engine winding it out to redline: it reacts verifies and adjusts No dyno neededli No external adjustments neededli Does not require wide band oxygen sensors. No additional components needed. Provides perfect fuel settings in any condition with any exhaust system with any engine modification.

    Vulcan 03-08 Mean Streak part # 92-1963AT
    Last edited by terrym95; 04-17-11 at 02:54 PM.
    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


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    Site Elder bikesrfun's Avatar
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    If our bikes had an O2 sensor and Mass Airflow Sensor, all of these tuners would not be necessary. Our bikes run on an open loop system due to the fact that there is no O2 sensor or MAF sensor. If there was, it would run in closed loop and adjust fuel delivery according to the O2 feedback and airflow, along with the other input from the other sensors, to the ECM.
    Vietnam Vet

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    Gone but not forgotten!

  11. #10
    Up-And Comer Ranger's Avatar
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    +1 with Terry, though I did not know that it already made production I have also been waiting the release of the new Cobra unit. I had a VN900 Custom with Cobra swepts, Hypercharger and a USB PCIII and although the add ons made a significant difference in power and dare I say fuel economy (riding civilized) I have postponed the intake up-grade on the Meannie awaiting this very product. The MSRP is just under $500.00 so say a realistic 450.00 or so once competition starts and that hardly covers the PCIII and one dyno run. Hope this competitor can offer the same benefits at a better price as I am sure that then we would all have something to think about.

  12. #11
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Just a quick recap here. As I said above, I have a 2007 Kawasaki Meanstreak 1600 with hard chrome stripper exhaust, and I have been using the PC-3 with the downloaded Map from Power Commander’s website for the hard chrome pipes.
    But, because I felt that it has so much more potential in the motor, I decided to try Dobeck's new product.

    Installation of the Gen 3.5 was easy to install, just plug-n-play to your injectors and one ground wire that goes to your battery.
    After installing it, I drove it on the stock Map. Then, I adjusted the fuel curve for idle cruising, mid-range and top-end fuel. There is also a setting for the Accelerator pump, which shoots a small burst of fuel when you open the throttle.
    After these adjustments, I rode it for 2 days. The Meanstreak now has a linear power band that responds instantly to the throttle, with no lag time. The bike now feels like a high performance V-twin that eagerly revs to red line, and the torque curve feels like it is evenly spread out. The power band is more widespread now, going from 2,000 rpms to redline with no flat spots.
    Before, with the narrow power band, the bike would only pull from 2,000 to 5,000 rpms and then drop off. But now, at 4500 rpms, you can give it full throttle and it immediately pulls all the way to redline.
    Down-shifting is a snap with a twist of the throttle due to the engine revving more quickly.
    As I said, installation is easy. After my initial adjustment, I found that I needed to add a little more fuel to all of the settings. Adjustments are made by pushing a mode button in the middle. That gets you into your different settings, where you can subtract fuel or add fuel from the stock Map. So, this too, was very easy to do.
    In the next few days, I will post the highway fuel mileage results.

    I like the Dobeck Gen 3.5. My Meanstreak feels like a whole new bike because it pulls so much harder through the power band now. I am absolutely amazed by what the Gen 3.5 was able to do. It really did unleash the extra power this motor was capable of, whereas the Power Commander fell short. It is a blast to ride!
    I hope this test has been helpful to you, but if you have any questions on it, I can try to answer them. Or you can contact Matt at Dobeck.

  13. #12
    Site Elder Nyinfamous2k2's Avatar
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    Are there different settings for different mods such as the PC3 has, ex. if you have a tornado intake and V&H pipes its a certain setting?
    2002 Mean Streak 1500, vance n hines straight shots de baffled, genmar risers, Hotbox, Mapam forward controls
    , 200/55 Avon cobra rear, 130/70 Avon storm front, sickle mirrors, ToyTech license plate mount, Progressive 444 shocks, spike intake, PC3, chrome spike grips, chrome bullet rear signals, chrome passanger pegs, chrome master cyl & brake res cover & switch housings, + other minor chrome parts. MassMax V-stream windshield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesrfun View Post
    If our bikes had an O2 sensor and Mass Airflow Sensor, all of these tuners would not be necessary. Our bikes run on an open loop system due to the fact that there is no O2 sensor or MAF sensor. If there was, it would run in closed loop and adjust fuel delivery according to the O2 feedback and airflow, along with the other input from the other sensors, to the ECM.
    Closed loop would be the Utopia without a doubt, but look at all the fun we'd be missing out on and the $$$ we wont be putting into FI management systems.
    2012 Concours14 Candy Arabian Red


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    Supreme Being john56's Avatar
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    Something does not seem right.....1. did you have your bike dyno tuned with the pcIII or just the map for your air and pipes?
    2. what is the cost of the new fuel management system 3. pcIII go for 280$, so to get our bike going we have to spend minimum 200 on air, 400 for exhaust, 500 for the new fuel deal, thats not bad for a new powerful bike, fut lets see some numbers to back up the feeling...

  16. #15
    Site Elder rbthntr64's Avatar
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    Very interested to read real numbers, not seat of the pants. No offense intended. I would like to see a unit that would auto adjust, even if it meant adding a couple of 02 sensors to my exhaust. For that I would pay, because no matter the altitude, temperature, or road conditions, it would always be right.
    2002 Mean Streak 1500, Custom Flame paint, Stebel Horn, Kuryakyn ISO Flame grips, MS Demon Shield, PCIII USB, Muzzy 2:2, Custom FC's , 04 Suzuki Boulevard headlight, Thunder Tornado intake w/ Forcewinder filter and left side. BikeMaster torpedo LED Signals. Clear alternative integrated tail light, Refined Cycle risers, VTX Shocks, Muzzy Drag pipes, Dakota MCV-7400 gauge, relocated regulator, Metric Jockey chin faring, Chuckster Chain Tensioner UPGRADE,
    Riding in honor of my Dad.

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