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Dobeck Gen 3.5 vs. Power Commander 3

This is a discussion on Dobeck Gen 3.5 vs. Power Commander 3 within the Mean Streak Performance Upgrades forums, part of the Kawasaki Mean Streak category; Price of the Gen 3.5 is $250.00...

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Thread: Dobeck Gen 3.5 vs. Power Commander 3

  1. #16
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Price of the Gen 3.5 is $250.00

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  3. #17
    Supreme Being streak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbthntr64 View Post
    Very interested to read real numbers, not seat of the pants. No offense intended. I would like to see a unit that would auto adjust, even if it meant adding a couple of 02 sensors to my exhaust. For that I would pay, because no matter the altitude, temperature, or road conditions, it would always be right.
    If you really want an autotune then just get a PCV and autotune module. It doesn't say its listed for our model but the 09 kawasaki ones will work; they just didn't update their lists with older models when they came out with it that year.

  4. #18
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Most of us buy the Power Commander to fine tune our exhaust, and like I said, I downloaded the Map for my exhaust. I called the tech at PC and he said that I did not need to run a Dyno on that, and that this Map was fine, and if I had to, I could make a few adjustments to add or take away fuel to make it better. I spent a lot of time fine-tuing the PC, and I did get it to run much better. The stock Map was loaded onto the Gen 3.5 when I got it. I made some adjustments and I posted those results. So many of us get the PC 3 and then take it to get a custom Map made for it. You are looking at approx. $700 total for the PC3. I just wanted to get a FIM that I could just plug and play without having to take it to get it Mapped. So, to me it makes sense to buy a product that is ready to go, right off the shelf, without having to spend any additional money to get it Mapped. Comparing them, I noticed a huge difference between them, and feel that my money is best spent on the Gen 3.5.
    The price is $250.00. Period.
    By the way, does anybody want to buy my PC 3?

  5. #19
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Call Matt and let him know what your set up is. http://www.dobeckperformance.com/default.asp

  6. #20
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    Call Matt and let him know what your set up is. http://www.dobeckperformance.com/default.asp
    Exhaust,Air Intake and and any other mods.

  7. #21
    Site Elder regnaston's Avatar
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    So when tinkering with maps on the PC3 how do you know if it is running slightly rich or lean?? (I know you can probably tell if it is way off)
    2002 Kawasaki Mean Streak vn1500
    - Samson Warlord RipSaw Exhaust - Driver Kuryakyn Swingwing Pegs - Passenger O-Ring Pegs - Arlen Ness Chrome Rectifier Cover -Mapam Chrome Rad Cover - Kuryakyn ISO Grips - Billet Oil Cap - Corbin Rumble Seat - Kuryakyn Brake Pedal Cover (4045) and Shifter cover - Clear Alternatives Integrated Tail/Signal Lights - Mikeg Horizontal sidemount License plate bracket - Spike Air Intake - Dynojet PC III

  8. #22
    Supreme Being john56's Avatar
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    I just received my PCIII , still in box, dang, wish this thread was up a month ago. Thanks for the info Anthony.
    for the PC V you need a ox sensor on the bike.

  9. #23
    Supreme Being streak07's Avatar
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    I'd need to see a/f graphs from an independent dyno shop before I believed the claims. The fact that it can be adjusted at all means a dyno SHOULD be used to tune it to get the optimal a/f ratio or at least get it in the ballpark. The same goes for the PC3, a dyno SHOULD be used but most people don't due to the added expense. Clicking a button until you don't physically feel a difference isn't how you tune. A 5mph breeze could make you think you have the best setting in the world. Using a butt dyno is not a means of tuning as the placebo effect comes into play. Thats why people with loud pipes think their bike is faster when it usually kills torque and made it slower.

    I'm not knocking the product or anything, I hope it does work. But the proof is in the pudding. A dyno overlay of a tuned PC3 and tuned Dobeck would sell me. Or even standard map vs. standard map; but I need to see a/f ratios. I'd also be curious what the mileage difference turns out to be.

  10. #24
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streak07 View Post
    I'd need to see a/f graphs from an independent dyno shop before I believed the claims. The fact that it can be adjusted at all means a dyno SHOULD be used to tune it to get the optimal a/f ratio or at least get it in the ballpark. The same goes for the PC3, a dyno SHOULD be used but most people don't due to the added expense. Clicking a button until you don't physically feel a difference isn't how you tune. A 5mph breeze could make you think you have the best setting in the world. Using a butt dyno is not a means of tuning as the placebo effect comes into play. Thats why people with loud pipes think their bike is faster when it usually kills torque and made it slower.

    I'm not knocking the product or anything, I hope it does work. But the proof is in the pudding. A dyno overlay of a tuned PC3 and tuned Dobeck would sell me. Or even standard map vs. standard map; but I need to see a/f ratios. I'd also be curious what the mileage difference turns out to be.
    I should have some mileage results in the next few days.

  11. #25
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd521 View Post
    This all sounds pretty good and yet leaves a lot of questions and concerns when it comes to tuning and especially for those of us with different intakes and exhausts. Like the Dyno-Jet there seems to be several maps and without using an O2 sensor and mapping the exhaust at the various riding conditions / dyno runs ,this makes it nearly impossible to know when to add or take away fuel.

    When someone actually comes up with a variable map to make those adjustments to maintain a 12.0 to 13.2 A/F RATIO, then I'll be happy to try one other than the PC III. I do not want readers of this thread to think I do not like the PC III , I just haven't had the time YET to have the dyno session myself to see the improvements I would think possibly attainable by spending the money on such a session.

    Again, without my pockets being flushed with additional greenbacks, I would simply love to experiment with the mapping using INNOVATE Motorsports LM-1 and and O2 sensor for the sideburners. If I am not mistaken some of the automobile chassis dynos do somewhat a similar procedure using two sensors for both banks of exhaust and fine tune the A/F ratio to a desired 12.- 13.5 . The article that I posted about several months ago on a Harley site is what I am referiing too. I can not say how much difference there would be from riding and getting data vs. a dyno session but I would think the field test ( riding ) might be superior vs. the dyno. Only proff of that would be trying it. If there would be several of us close enough that would want to try this and share in the cost of the equipment it would certainly cut out a lot from just one individuals wallet.

    That being said.... I too, for now will keep up on the newer Dobeck device to see how much better it will be.....

    Thanks for posting the topic.
    Matt at Dobeck should be able to give you the A/F ratio numbers.
    2007 Meanstreak 1600, 2007 Honda CBR600RR, 1997 Suzuki TL1000S

  12. #26
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    Just a quick recap here. As I said above, I have a 2007 Kawasaki Meanstreak 1600 with hard chrome stripper exhaust, and I have been using the PC-3 with the downloaded Map from Power Commander’s website for the hard chrome pipes.
    But, because I felt that it has so much more potential in the motor, I decided to try Dobeck's new product.

    Installation of the Gen 3.5 was easy to install, just plug-n-play to your injectors and one ground wire that goes to your battery.
    After installing it, I drove it on the stock Map. Then, I adjusted the fuel curve for idle cruising, mid-range and top-end fuel. There is also a setting for the Accelerator pump, which shoots a small burst of fuel when you open the throttle.
    After these adjustments, I rode it for 2 days. The Meanstreak now has a linear power band that responds instantly to the throttle, with no lag time. The bike now feels like a high performance V-twin that eagerly revs to red line, and the torque curve feels like it is evenly spread out. The power band is more widespread now, going from 2,000 rpms to redline with no flat spots.
    Before, with the narrow power band, the bike would only pull from 2,000 to 5,000 rpms and then drop off. But now, at 4500 rpms, you can give it full throttle and it immediately pulls all the way to redline.
    Down-shifting is a snap with a twist of the throttle due to the engine revving more quickly.
    As I said, installation is easy. After my initial adjustment, I found that I needed to add a little more fuel to all of the settings. Adjustments are made by pushing a mode button in the middle. That gets you into your different settings, where you can subtract fuel or add fuel from the stock Map. So, this too, was very easy to do.
    In the next few days, I will post the highway fuel mileage results.

    I like the Dobeck Gen 3.5. My Meanstreak feels like a whole new bike because it pulls so much harder through the power band now. I am absolutely amazed by what the Gen 3.5 was able to do. It really did unleash the extra power this motor was capable of, whereas the Power Commander fell short. It is a blast to ride!
    I hope this test has been helpful to you, but if you have any questions on it, I can try to answer them. Or you can contact Matt at Dobeck.
    Dyno charts for the Meanstreak. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/acc.../photo_05.html
    Last edited by Anthony; 04-20-11 at 11:20 AM.
    2007 Meanstreak 1600, 2007 Honda CBR600RR, 1997 Suzuki TL1000S

  13. #27
    Site Elder bikesrfun's Avatar
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    Due to the different intake/ exhaust combos, the flow rates through the engine vary and would require fine tuning no matter what tuner you use. The optimal way to accomplish this is to have the bike dyno'd and set up for max power or fuel economy or combination of both, whichever is desired. To claim that out of the box, any tuner will give you these characteristics is b/s in my opinion. If, as mentioned before, our bikes had O2 and MAF sensors, the ECM could and would make the adjustments to fuel distribution to get the engine to the optimal A/F ratio. Without these sensors, the bike has to be dyno'd to acurately obtain these results, regardless of the unit used. The new Dobeck unit seems to me to be an electronic version of the older TFI or FI2000 with the adjustable pots.
    Vietnam Vet

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  14. #28
    Site Elder regnaston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    Dyno charts for the Meanstreak. Here is the link. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/acc...ems/index.html
    People are asking for a DYNO with the 3.5 not some 2 year old Dyno with a Cobra Fi2000
    2002 Kawasaki Mean Streak vn1500
    - Samson Warlord RipSaw Exhaust - Driver Kuryakyn Swingwing Pegs - Passenger O-Ring Pegs - Arlen Ness Chrome Rectifier Cover -Mapam Chrome Rad Cover - Kuryakyn ISO Grips - Billet Oil Cap - Corbin Rumble Seat - Kuryakyn Brake Pedal Cover (4045) and Shifter cover - Clear Alternatives Integrated Tail/Signal Lights - Mikeg Horizontal sidemount License plate bracket - Spike Air Intake - Dynojet PC III

  15. #29
    Site Elder bikesrfun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    Dyno charts for the Meanstreak. Here is the link. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/acc...ems/index.html
    Those charts were based on exhaust and FI2000 tuner. Also the article that contains the dyno charts specify that each setup had to be dyno'd to accurately obtain the best power/torque results. I'm not knocking the product, just pointing out that if you want the best results from your setup, it has to be dyno'd regardless of the tuner used.
    Vietnam Vet

    2011 Vaquero
    2003 Mean Streak
    What a Great Ride
    Gone but not forgotten!

  16. #30
    Rising Star Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesrfun View Post
    Those charts were based on exhaust and FI2000 tuner. Also the article that contains the dyno charts specify that each setup had to be dyno'd to accurately obtain the best power/torque results. I'm not knocking the product, just pointing out that if you want the best results from your setup, it has to be dyno'd regardless of the tuner used.
    Just thought everbody would like to see the HP and TORQE curves for the Meanstreak, 2000 RPM to aprox. 4800RPM. The Gen 3.5 is using different technology from the TFI version. Call Matt and he can explain the difference between the two. [url]d
    Last edited by Anthony; 04-20-11 at 11:25 AM.
    2007 Meanstreak 1600, 2007 Honda CBR600RR, 1997 Suzuki TL1000S

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