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Anybody Carry Concealed?

This is a discussion on Anybody Carry Concealed? within the General Ninja 650R forums, part of the Kawasaki Ninja 650R category; In Australia when they off someone the body gets fed to dingoes. What's the missing person statistic?...

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  1. #136
    Supreme Being djrussell's Avatar
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    In Australia when they off someone the body gets fed to dingoes. What's the missing person statistic?
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  2. #137
    Rising Star KiDGiB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgmr250 View Post
    I would suggest taking a look at this chart:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

    Firearm related death rate, per 100,000 population:
    USA 10.64
    Canada 2.22
    Australia 0.86

    If, as you suggest, Australia 'decided' only criminals should be allowed to have firearms, then why is the firearm related death rate in the US over 12 times that of Australia?

    This, again, isn't to start an argument over the right to bear arms etc., but rather in direct response to 'gunz' obviously un-researched posting(s)
    You also have to factor in the population of each country.

    United States - 318.9 million (2014)
    Canada - 35.16 million (2013)
    Australia - 23.13 million (2013)
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  3. #138
    Supreme Being XPyron's Avatar
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    I believe the per 100,000 is supposed to distribute that evenly. 33,636 deaths + 84,258 injuries. Not a list you really want to be 13th on. Not really the purpose of the thread though.
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  5. #139
    Rising Star rgmr250's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPyron View Post
    I believe the per 100,000 is supposed to distribute that evenly. 33,636 deaths + 84,258 injuries. Not a list you really want to be 13th on. Not really the purpose of the thread though.
    Quote Originally Posted by KiDGiB View Post
    You also have to factor in the population of each country.

    United States - 318.9 million (2014)
    Canada - 35.16 million (2013)
    Australia - 23.13 million (2013)
    As Xpyron mentioned, "death rate, per 100,000 population" indicates that it's a 'per capita' statistic, so the population difference is calculated into the figure. I will say, however, that the higher the population (and/or population density), often the higher the crime rates. This certainly isn't a 'blanket' statement because there are countries and regions with higher population and lower crime rates, and regions with lower population and higher crime rates. I do believe that population and/or population density has at least some effect on crime rates.

  6. #140
    Supreme Being XPyron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgmr250 View Post
    As Xpyron mentioned, "death rate, per 100,000 population" indicates that it's a 'per capita' statistic, so the population difference is calculated into the figure. I will say, however, that the higher the population (and/or population density), often the higher the crime rates. This certainly isn't a 'blanket' statement because there are countries and regions with higher population and lower crime rates, and regions with lower population and higher crime rates. I do believe that population and/or population density has at least some effect on crime rates.
    Considering Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea are some of the lowest, I am not sure density really comes into play by itself but probably paired with another statistic. Maybe the amount of people that carry concealed? J/K
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  7. #141
    Rising Star KiDGiB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgmr250 View Post
    As Xpyron mentioned, "death rate, per 100,000 population" indicates that it's a 'per capita' statistic, so the population difference is calculated into the figure. I will say, however, that the higher the population (and/or population density), often the higher the crime rates. This certainly isn't a 'blanket' statement because there are countries and regions with higher population and lower crime rates, and regions with lower population and higher crime rates. I do believe that population and/or population density has at least some effect on crime rates.
    You are right. The higher crime areas are usually highly populated cities with low income housing. Los Angeles for example.
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  8. #142
    Rising Star gunz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgmr250 View Post
    I would suggest taking a look at this chart:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

    Firearm related death rate, per 100,000 population:
    USA 10.64
    Canada 2.22
    Australia 0.86

    If, as you suggest, Australia 'decided' only criminals should be allowed to have firearms, then why is the firearm related death rate in the US over 12 times that of Australia?

    This, again, isn't to start an argument over the right to bear arms etc., but rather in direct response to 'gunz' obviously un-researched posting(s)
    Simple math... Now if you want to try to get specific, you should look at the number or gun related crimes per capita. They have disarmed their law abiding citizens so the criminal have free run. An unarmed citizen is referred to as "the victim".

  9. #143
    Rising Star gunz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiDGiB View Post
    You also have to factor in the population of each country.

    United States - 318.9 million (2014)
    Canada - 35.16 million (2013)
    Australia - 23.13 million (2013)
    And there it is.. Someone that understand how statistic work. I am not trying to be rude towards anyone, But this is a hot topic button for me. I have put my life in harms way defending our country and constitution and my freedom to bear arms. I will not go quietly into the night like a sheep.

  10. #144
    Supreme Being HilbillyKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djrussell View Post
    In Australia when they off someone the body gets fed to dingoes. What's the missing person statistic?
    35,000 each year. 90,000 in the US.
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  11. #145
    Rising Star rgmr250's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunz View Post
    And there it is.. Someone that understand how statistic work. I am not trying to be rude towards anyone, But this is a hot topic button for me. I have put my life in harms way defending our country and constitution and my freedom to bear arms. I will not go quietly into the night like a sheep.
    Actually, no, that isn't how statistics work, when statistics are per-capita based (which they generally are, so they are comparable), not pure totals. This set of statistics are quoted as "death rate, per 100,000 population". By using a per-capita type (actually per-100,000 people) # of deaths, rather than a total # of deaths, it (virtually) eliminates the difference in population. If there's a statistic of X deaths per 100 people, then it doesn't matter whether the country/region has a population of 100 or 100,000,000. The accuracy of the statistic is theoretically higher with a higher sample rate (higher population), though.

    Again, I'm not debating the right to bear arms. I also served my country in the military for 8 years.

    What's the difference, then, between the USA, Australia and Canada. If we believe the accuracy of these statistics (I will admit that statistics can be very dangerous because it's possible to have them skewed for all kinds of different reasons), then why does the gun-related death rate appear to be so much higher in the US than Canada, and higher in Canada than Australia? Is it a simple matter of higher population? I don't believe so. As mentioned by Xpyron, there doesn't seem to be a direct link. For example:
    Country population gun-related death rate per 100,000 population
    USA 322,000,000 10.64
    Brazil 202,000,000 19.03
    Honduras 8,200,000 64.8
    Canada 35,500,000 2.22
    Australia 23,600,000 0.86
    Japan 127,000,000 0.06
    U.K 63,000,000 0.25
    (Interesting facts on the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_po...United_Kingdom - where policy don't carry firearms, but yet "The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world")

    References:
    Population by Country (2014) - Worldometers
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

  12. #146
    Rising Star rgmr250's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HilbillyKat View Post
    35,000 each year. 90,000 in the US.
    National missing persons - Australian Federal Police
    of the 35,000 - they claim 99.5% are located.

    I can't find similar % for the US, as they have a missing persons cancellation rate (if the person is found, or after 7 years they are claimed at deceased and removed from the missing persons list.)
    Majority Of Missing Persons Cases Are Resolved : NPR
    "In 2012, we had 661,000 cases of missing persons; and that's just from that one year. Very quickly, 659,000 of those were canceled. So that means those persons either come back; in some cases, located as deceased persons, maybe never an unidentified person; or just a total misunderstanding. So at the end of 2012, of those 661,000 minus the canceled, we had 2,079 cases that remained at the end of the year as unresolved." Note that some of the 659,000 'cancelled' are not from that year, but from previous years (mostly from 7 years prior), so it's not a terribly accurate number, since 7 years after going missing, they are pronounced deceased and cancelled (removed) from the list.

    Based on the loose info above, it sounds like 175 people in Australia go missing each year and aren't found, and 2,079 in the USA and aren't found.

    I would venture a guess that of the 175 in Australia, a larger portion are deceased (out in the outback somewhere) and the 2,079 in the US a larger portion are runaways and/or abducted children - take this with a grain of salt as this part is just a knee-jerk/gut reaction to the numbers and I'm likely waaay off on my guess here.
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  13. #147
    Supreme Being HilbillyKat's Avatar
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  14. #148
    Supreme Being HilbillyKat's Avatar
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    Right to carry laws have had a greater lowering effect on murder rates than gun bans! Google it.
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  15. #149
    Rising Star rgmr250's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HilbillyKat View Post
    I, personally, agree that banning guns generally only takes the guns (mostly) away from law-abiding citizens and leaves them in the hands of the criminals.

    However, the link above talks about homicide rates - a homicide isn't necessarily a death from a firearm, it could be from a knife etc. Also, some further reading reveals that in the UK, homicide rates are defined differently than they are in the US. They're still probably reasonably close, but since the way they're calculated is apparently quite different, it does throw the numbers off, potentially. The chart says: "homicides, firearm offences and Intimate Violence". Do we know what percentage of the murders in that chart are Firearm-related offences?.

    It's also interesting that there's a spike around 2004, but then the homicide rate drops to below the 1997 rate by 2010. Is the spike after 1997 directly related to the firearms ban in the UK? Or, would the spike have occurred regardless? I'd suggest it might be a little of both.

  16. #150
    Supreme Being HilbillyKat's Avatar
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    That is the whole point. Murders will occur...regardless of the means. But...in places where people may be carrying, the murder and violent crime rates dropped significantly! This says...in fact..that guns serve better as a way to prevent violence than to cause it.

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